NROTC and USNA

[BeerMe]

So how is USNA "superior"..

Just curious. I had a superior good time on BDCP, came and went as I pleased, and make more money than my USNA peers due to an extra year and change of service.

My personal opinion is that, if you're willing to invest the time and effort into learning about the communities, fleet, leadership, officership, networking, career paths, etc,-- that a "total immersion" program like USNA can better prepare you for life "in the fleet." It's the same concept as prior enlisted v. straight-outta-college officers, the prior enlistment doesn't make you any better, just better prepared.

 

[wlawr005]

My personal opinion is that, if you're willing to invest the time and effort into learning about the communities, fleet, leadership, officership, networking, career paths, etc,-- that a "total immersion" program like USNA can better prepare you for life "in the fleet." It's the same concept as prior enlisted v. straight-outta-college officers, the prior enlistment doesn't make you any better, just better prepared.

and there's a whistle on the field....

 

[Kyoowashugi]

Stand by Q-1R...execute.

 

[BeerMe]

and there's a whistle on the field....

Whatever, I had my say.

 

[SynixMan]

To the OP: Is your father a USNA or other service academy grad? Or is there another reason he's pushing it so hard?

NROTC and USNA both offer a free (money-wise) college degree and a commission at the end. Short of that it's all opinions, and, as you can see, they vary widely.

I think you overestimate how disappointed he might be with you for picking one over the other. I'd even go as far as saying he'd be damn proud of you any way you make it to a commission and beyond. Is he trying to help you make an informed decision? Sure, that's his job as a good parent. Just don't let his preconceived notions get in the way of what you want.

 

[Brett327]

Whatever, I had my say.

Yeah, and your say isn't worth a whole lot. Someone like you doesn't even have the experience to make any statements about the quality of officers produced by any one commissioning source because you've got just about zero experience as an officer - zero. In sharp contrast, I've talked with a lot of USNA grads in my years and there are just as many of them who regretted their decision to go there in lieu of a traditional university as there are who thought it was a good idea. That's my "say."

Brett

 

[scoolbubba]

if you take full advantage of all it has to offer, USNA is a superior commissioning source.

I gotta go take my blood pressure medication and shake all that salt off this post. In your 3 months of commissionedness, how are you superior again? You might outshoot me in a federally protected bird hunt, but other than that...?

 

[Short]

With the other insights shared by BeerMe, I'm tempted to give him points for not saying "Based on my experience".

Just to keep the thread lively,
-Helos are useless/ugly as they are not jets
-there are dozens of light attack aircraft that were far better than the A-4
-if the Tomcat was so great, we wouldn't have sold it to Iran

I figure that if we're making ignorant statements, go big or go home

 

[MasterBates]

USNA can better prepare you for life "in the fleet." It's the same concept as prior enlisted v. straight-outta-college officers, the prior enlistment doesn't make you any better, just better prepared.

Yeah, get back to me after a fleet tour. We had great USNA dudes, and some that just could not adjust to "real life" even after the TRACOM and RAG to "de-program".

 

[Sky-Pig]

My personal opinion is that, if you're willing to invest the time and effort into learning about the communities, fleet, leadership, officership, networking, career paths, etc,-- that a "total immersion" program like USNA can better prepare you for life "in the fleet." It's the same concept as prior enlisted v. straight-outta-college officers, the prior enlistment doesn't make you any better, just better prepared.

I don't normally dog pile, but for the love of pete, get a clue.

It is fantastic that you have an opinion...but I'd recommend you act like any other FNG and try to remain quiet and friendly until you earn the right to not act that way.

I would assume from your profile that you have zero time as a NROTC middie, a BDCP-er, an OCS graduate...or the requisite time in the Navy and experience to adequately rate any of the commissioning sources.

It's been 16 years since I left Annapolis and I still don't feel qualified to judge...nor do I feel the need.

I bring this up as a form of professional development that could serve you well in the coming years: if don't know what you are talking about, shut up. Because in the end it really is better to remain silent and be thought the fool than to confirm it by opening your pie hole.

Take your lumps and learn from this.

End dog pile.

 

[sdhitt]

To the OP: Is your father a USNA or other service academy grad? Or is there another reason he's pushing it so hard?

NROTC and USNA both offer a free (money-wise) college degree and a commission at the end. Short of that it's all opinions, and, as you can see, they vary widely.

I think you overestimate how disappointed he might be with you for picking one over the other. I'd even go as far as saying he'd be damn proud of you any way you make it to a commission and beyond. Is he trying to help you make an informed decision? Sure, that's his job as a good parent. Just don't let his preconceived notions get in the way of what you want.

Actually, I'm going to be the first person to serve in the military if everything works out. I think that my dad wants me to go there because of the reputation which he thinks will open more doors for me. Also, my parents aren't really taking me serious when I say I want to serve (probably because they haven't dealt with the experience before) so they're looking to see what college looks good in the civilian world as opposed to what program will help me with a career (hopefully) in the military.

BTW: I'm a girl

 

[Daisy]

sdhitt - You've gotten a lot of good advice. This in particular:

Any NROTC unit will provide you the opportunity to earn a commission. Picking a school based on the perceived reputation of its current NROTC program might seem like a good idea, but as with everything else, luck and timing will come into play. A new MOI or AMOI can come in and turn a 'bad' program 'good' or a 'good' program 'bad' in no time. What seems like the perfect program now might be a clownshow by this time next year and vice versa. If you want to pick a school because it has a certain academic program with a good reputation, that's different. That's built up over years or decades and typically won't change overnight.

I would encourage you to call the NROTC unit at Berkeley and ask how many Stanford students are in the unit. They will tell you. Also try to find out how the Stanford mids handle the cross-town commute.

Good luck with Stanford admission. It's so hard to get into - a super reach for most kids. But it's an awesome college with some great majors/concentrations and great weather. Good golf, too.

 

[C420sailor]

They both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm one of the few who has been on both sides of the fence (USNA and NROTC) and both have the potential to produce officers of equally great quality.

Don't let Kool Aid drinkers sway you. Go where YOU want to go and you'll be much happier in the long run.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Actually, I'm going to be the first person to serve in the military if everything works out. I think that my dad wants me to go there because of the reputation which he thinks will open more doors for me. Also, my parents aren't really taking me serious when I say I want to serve (probably because they haven't dealt with the experience before) so they're looking to see what college looks good in the civilian world as opposed to what program will help me with a career (hopefully) in the military.

BTW: I'm a girl

Why do you think they're not taking you seriously? Since you were serious enough to go apply and go to Summer Seminar, this obviously isn't some spur-of-the-moment thing. Still - if you're not 100% raring to go to Annapolis, then don't. I can't emphasize this enough. You have to really, really want to be there, because frankly, a fair amount of the time, it's a seriously sucky place to be. Your personal motivaton is the only thing that will keep you there.

You were originally asking about USNA vs. other commissioning programs helping your military career, which it doesn't. Your parents are right that being a USNA grad does help in the civvie world, though. I'm starting the process of hanging up the uniform, and I've really been startled how much the Big Brass Knuckle helps on a resume. Not saying it's an Old Boys Network thing, either - mostly these employers only know the Academies by reputation. Whether it helps more than being from any civvie university with a good reputation is debatable.

Anyway, it'll only help you get in the door when you leave the Navy. After that, you're on your own. Assholes are assholes no matter where they went to college.

Speaking of assholes: BeerMe, shut the fuck up until you've actually been in the Fleet. TRACOM is not the Fleet. The bullshit they fed you at the Boat School gives you no basis for making any kind of educated judgement on this topic. You're being "one of those Academy guys" that the rest of us spend our time trying not to be.

 

[a-6intruder]

Thanks for sharing your opinions with me, it means a lot. As a follow-up question, how would you rate the NROTC program at Berkeley? How well does the program prepare for OCS? I'm applying to Stanford, but I'm worried that the program is not that strong since all the mids are so far apart.

I will share my perceptions based on a similar story. Son went to NASS, and liked it. Went to USAFA Summer Seminar and hated it. Knew he wanted to go Navy, but decided NROTC was a better fit for him. Seriously considered Stanford, and we flew out there to check it out. Great school, rep, etc, etc.

The problem is that the unit is in Berkeley. I kept my mouth shut, but my opinion after 25+ years observing this is that participating as a cross-town student midshipman is a tough way to do it. Let's assume the Naval Science class meets on Tuesday and Thursday @ 1000-1115. That means you can't schedule any 0900 classes or any 1200 classes as you have to factor in the commute time between Berkeley and Stanford. You also have to decide how many voluntary NROTC activities you can participate in because there's that commute factor again. If you are wanting to go Marine Option, then voluntary 0600 PT really becomes mandatory PT. Cross-town programs are a tough way to go.

He looked at Vanderbilt and decided to go there and loves every aspect of it. He hasn't exactly taken the program by storm, but he's excited to be there and will sign his contract when he returns in a few weeks.

I will toss a turd in the punch-bowl and say that some NROTC units have historically had a great reputation in the Fleet where it matters, and some have not. Villanova, Marquette, Notre Dame, Holy Cross, Vanderbilt, and others have always been strong schools and their graduates pop up everywhere. Last year I was in a command of 50 people, and 4 of them were from Marquette. Conversely, I have only met one officer who graduated from NROTC Berkeley. I won't necessarily link his poor performance to his alma mater - he'd have done poorly wherever he went. (smart, but very poor leadership qualities). I often wonder where all the grads from Berkeley, U of Idaho, Prairie View, and other units end up, because I've never met a single one of them. Ever. And I always ask where they are from. Not because I form an opinion, but because I'm curious.

Ask how the NROTC unit's relationship is with the university. Some schools love NROTC; others seem to grudgingly accept their existence.

Final note - if the NROTC Instructor talks about how his main job is to help you get through college, and they avoid any additional pressure by limiting the "Navy Stuff," my recommendation would be to find another school. True statement - that's what a very well known high quality academic school told my son. "You'll learn how to be an officer during Summer Training and once you commission." WRONG. That unit has abdicated their primary responsibility, which is to train Naval Officers. If they aren't training officer candidates, then those officer candidates will never get trained.

Good luck, and end of old guy rant.