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NYT: Pentagon Expects Cuts in Military Spending

NYCJetCharter

New Member
kind of understandable

At this juncture, I think they've cut most of what they can in social programs at home so they don't have much choice in cutting elsewhere. Plus with so many crying out for pulling out of Iraq, the public thinks that cutting the military budgets will help that happen faster. Not necessarily true, of course, but that's the general assumption.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
When the F did we have "years of unfettered growth in military budgets?" BULL SHIT. I stopped reading there after my ignorance detector overloaded and exploded. I guess the Clinton years never happened, and ditto for Rummy's attempts at "transformation."

Media idiocy, ignorance, and bias is going to be the death of this country.
 

FlyinSpy

Mongo only pawn, in game of life...
Contributor
When the F did we have "years of unfettered growth in military budgets?" BULL SHIT.

Dude, which part are you disagreeing with? There has been tremendous growth in the defense budget in the last 8 years - on the order of 74%. Real growth (the only kind that matters) has been almost 44%. The SecDef is completely on board with this assessment; the title of the summary of his testimony on this topic back in Feb was "Real Growth in Defense Spending Nearly Over, Secretary Warns". (http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0108/020708cdam1.htm)

You might disagree with how the budget has been allocated, but the growth has been huge. What is really illustrative is to compare the last pre-9/11 budget (FY2000), where FY2005 spending was projected to be $333B . In reality, it was $532B (in constant year dollars), an absolutely enormous increase. And it's not just cost of war that drove this - those were generally covered in the supplementals; the baseline budgets had tremendous growth. Now, did we in the Prowler community see much of this? Well, we got new some wing center sections and OWPs, and a bitchin new Block 3 ICS that doesn't work very well, but not much else....

An absolutely outstanding brief on this subject can be found here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/2009dodbud.pdf No shit, either - as Kenny Banya would say "This is gold, Jerry! Gold!!" I highly recommend everyone take a look at it and the information it contains - it can really inform a lot of debates and discussions. (Slide 14 shows the growth in real defense spending from 1998-2009.)
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
words-1.gif
OK, I think we're speaking at cross purposes. I wasn't referring to the past 8 years, but the large drawdowns which preceded them. I find the "unfettered growth" phrase disingenuous and contrary to their point. It really doesn't put spending of the last, say, 20 years in context.

Ever throw a phrase in an email or report for flavor or as a lead-in, and then had someone completely misinterpret your point because of it? When I read that first phrase, it really pushed my buttons, because to me, it makes the authors sound like stereotypical liberals who think our budget should go to the Peace Corps. Thus, that's kind of what it set my brain up to hear. As I start doing real officer stuff, versus being a stud, I'm beginning to learn that you need to measure your words. There is no such thing as filler, because someone will take every part of what you write as a serious argument.

That goes both ways here, and I'll eat some crow here where crow-eating is due. Going back through, they make a much more well-reasoned argument than I expected given their introduction. Your pdf is very enlightening, though. I was under the impression that much more of our costs were being borne by supplemental funding; it was a shock to see our base budget going up that much.

And it furthers my feeling that the goverment has its fingers in too many pies, and needs to cut entitlement spending, but fat chance of that in this economy.
 

FlyinSpy

Mongo only pawn, in game of life...
Contributor
Ever throw a phrase in an email or report for flavor or as a lead-in, and then had someone completely misinterpret your point because of it?

You're spot-on about his use of the phrase "unfettered growth" in the lead-in to the story - that's a loaded term. He could have easily have said "significant growth", but that doesn't sound as dramatic; "unfettered" makes it sound like DoD was backing the truck up to the loading dock and shoveling the $$ in. (Which, in some cases, was kinda true, but it's not a generalizable statement - two wars cost a lot of money.)

I think the big takeaway is that both the Title 10 (DoD) and Title 50 (Intel) communities have gotten very used to increasing budgets over the last few years, and the fiscal realities of the next several are going to be hard to swallow. Given that the current administration also kicked some really hard budget choices (KC-X, TSAT, etc) down the road, there's going to be a lot of budgetary blood spilled in the coming budget builds. I'm not sure I'd be holding out for an F-35 slot any time soon...
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
I'm not advocating a military budget cut....but we've certainly earned the scrutiny we will be under. If you just look at the military in terms of the toys we like to buy, the costs are enormous and tough to swallow when we dont have the products to show for it: LCS, F-22, JSF. Personnel costs will continue to be enormous, especially since our quality of life contines to get better. We'll be faced with hard decisions on what equipment we get and what we have to cut. I hope the pinch wont be felt on the personnel side.
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
What growth? All that money has gone to funding two wars OEF and OIF, fuel, beans and bullets. My joint time has been a real eye opener that EVERY community is burning through their equipment and its life expectancy.

You just wait for the other shoe to drop, and see what gets CUT... P-8, poof, gone... and others...
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
What growth? All that money has gone to funding two wars OEF and OIF, fuel, beans and bullets. My joint time has been a real eye opener that EVERY community is burning through their equipment and its life expectancy.

You just wait for the other shoe to drop, and see what gets CUT... P-8, poof, gone... and others...

He speaks truth. I understand everybody's concern about budget cuts but we have to face the reality that we cannot get there from here. As it stands, even without cuts we cannot afford everything we "need" to fund. The sooner we face the truth the better.
 

Stick

Member
pilot
That presentation was very good. The part I had a problem with was for the options to increase Army recruiting. I can't believe it was even proposed to allow illegal immigrants to serve. But that is a whole different discussion.
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
He speaks truth. I understand everybody's concern about budget cuts but we have to face the reality that we cannot get there from here. As it stands, even without cuts we cannot afford everything we "need" to fund. The sooner we face the truth the better.

I'd like to see them cut ballistic missile defense first, since its so damn expensive and has so far to go technologically before it can be deployed.
 
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