Off the golden path career path and transitioning between aircraft type

[Random13]

Hello all,

**Disclaimer, before I waste anyone's time, I am a college senior who is not even in the military, just intrigued by some resent personal research I conducted**

First off , the second half of the title of this post is not a "If I don't get fighters, can I transition later" but rather a question about pure pilot skills and struggles/non-struggles between transitioning between aircraft types. The first half is based off of a Youtube video from the fighter pilot podcast and based on the career path of a person that I know personally. Both are way down the road for me as I am not even in the door for military aviation yet, but am genuinely curious about both.

1.) On the Fighter Pilot podcast, they had a now former Force Paddles for the U.S. Navy Pacific Aviation Fleet. His career path was the Fleet, FRS instructor on the Rhino, CAG Paddle, then Force Paddle in place of what from my understanding would have been his DH tour (thanks airwarrior community for the knowledge of what DH means). A second "off path" example I know of is someone I know personally. His path was the fleet then went to Operational Test for his shore tour, then remained in the same squadron doing Operational Test for his DH tour. My question is this, would this Force Paddle, my personal connection or anyone across the Naval Aviation fleet who took a job similar to this in their community be off the "golden path" described on Airwarriors, where they are now much less competitive for fleet command, or are there specific instances where a pilot who took a similar job made command in the fleet?

2.) This is based off a former Blue Angel from the 2020-2022 team. Major Frank "Chomps" Zastoupil never flew the F-18 Hornet or Super Hornet prior to the Blues. He flew the Harrier and the F-35B in the USMC. For those that made the transition from one aircraft that is different in manueverability, power, etc to one with different, potentially higher maneuverability, capabilities, how hard/easy was that? I know of three communities in particular that made changes somewhat recently, and they are the P-3 to P-8 folks, EA-6B to EA-18G folks, and the AV-8B to F-35B/C folks.

3.) This question generated from question 2, for NFOs how hard/ easy was the transition from P-3 to P-8 or the EA-6B to the EA-18G with your mission sets?

My apologies if I missed any communities that transitioned, this is what popped in my head.

I look forward to any and all feedback
-Random

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

feedback

Disclaimer: Not an Aviator or NFO.

Bigger question: Why are you worried about all of this? Do you feel there’s a right or wrong path starting with flight school? As if you pick helicopters, tail hook, etc. that your career is now limited?

If you look up various flag officers that are naval aviators, many flew various aircraft (i.e. F-14 to F/A-18, etc.) over their career.

Peeling back the naval aviation piece, most organizations transform over time. Technology (AI/ML), demand, etc. will change the way business is done - sometimes it changes fast, other times not as much.

So going back to the big question… why are you so worried about this?

 

[Brett327]

Hello all,

**Disclaimer, before I waste anyone's time, I am a college senior who is not even in the military, just intrigued by some resent personal research I conducted**

First off , the second half of the title of this post is not a "If I don't get fighters, can I transition later" but rather a question about pure pilot skills and struggles/non-struggles between transitioning between aircraft types. The first half is based off of a Youtube video from the fighter pilot podcast and based on the career path of a person that I know personally. Both are way down the road for me as I am not even in the door for military aviation yet, but am genuinely curious about both.

1.) On the Fighter Pilot podcast, they had a now former Force Paddles for the U.S. Navy Pacific Aviation Fleet. His career path was the Fleet, FRS instructor on the Rhino, CAG Paddle, then Force Paddle in place of what from my understanding would have been his DH tour (thanks airwarrior community for the knowledge of what DH means). A second "off path" example I know of is someone I know personally. His path was the fleet then went to Operational Test for his shore tour, then remained in the same squadron doing Operational Test for his DH tour. My question is this, would this Force Paddle, my personal connection or anyone across the Naval Aviation fleet who took a job similar to this in their community be off the "golden path" described on Airwarriors, where they are now much less competitive for fleet command, or are there specific instances where a pilot who took a similar job made command in the fleet?

2.) This is based off a former Blue Angel from the 2020-2022 team. Major Frank "Chomps" Zastoupil never flew the F-18 Hornet or Super Hornet prior to the Blues. He flew the Harrier and the F-35B in the USMC. For those that made the transition from one aircraft that is different in manueverability, power, etc to one with different, potentially higher maneuverability, capabilities, how hard/easy was that? I know of three communities in particular that made changes somewhat recently, and they are the P-3 to P-8 folks, EA-6B to EA-18G folks, and the AV-8B to F-35B/C folks.

3.) This question generated from question 2, for NFOs how hard/ easy was the transition from P-3 to P-8 or the EA-6B to the EA-18G with your mission sets?

My apologies if I missed any communities that transitioned, this is what popped in my head.

I look forward to any and all feedback
-Random

1. The force paddles is a bad example of "off track." They still do a squadron DH tour. This applies to so few people that it's not worth talking about. Likewise, the test folks who stay VX for their DH tours still play well at Command Screen Boards. PERS puts out the stats on that periodically. Off track usually refers to someone who did a non-standard (I.E. non-production) shore tour (think NROTC instructor or OCS class officer), followed by a non-standard second sea tour.

2/3. I'm not sure I can answer whether transitioning is objectively hard or not. It's just a training track, same as everyone else does. If you suck, it will be hard. I transitioned from EA-6B to Growler EWO before my squadron command tour. It takes a couple hundred hours before you feel like you've got your mojo back, but at the end of the day, you're flying around operating a weapons system. The fundamentals are the same.

Finally, I don't know if this question is implied in your post, but do not plan on transitioning to another aircraft if you don't like what you select. It happens for such a small number of people (for whom about a dozen different miracles have to happen), it is effectively not an option for you. I'll echo what was said above... you have absolutely zero reason to be thinking about any of this right now. You'll become very familiar with this stuff by the time it matters.

 

[MIDNJAC]

What do you call a lone LSO walking the p way at night? A "paddle"

 

[Random13]

Finally, I don't know if this question is implied in your post, but do not plan on transitioning to another aircraft if you don't like what you select.

I'll tag both @FormerRecruitingGuru and @Brett327 here. I was in no way trying to imply that I would want to jump ship from whatever community I would be assigned to. I would be happy doing any mission that the United States Military does, and would be happy flying any aircraft in any community. I have zero preference to what I fly as I am not even in the door to commission, let alone attend military flight school. I am currently looking at taking some flight lessons (hopefully through my PPL) to see if I like and have an actual aptitude for flying. In what I have been studying in the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook, it stated how the skills gained through effective PPL training should give any prospective pilot the baseline skills and knowledge to aid in operating any GA airplane. My question was a stick and rudder question aimed at those that in my eyes are much, much further advanced in both their skillsets and the size/ performance capabilites of their aircraft, and how you guys deal with potentially massive changes in aircraft and the performance difference of each.

It takes a couple hundred hours before you feel like you've got your mojo back, but at the end of the day, you're flying around operating a weapons system. The fundamentals are the same.

Thank you for this perspective. I am a nerd when it comes to learning about different aircraft systems, so this first-hand account is interesting in my opinion.

I'll echo what was said above... you have absolutely zero reason to be thinking about any of this right now. You'll become very familiar with this stuff by the time it matters.

I apologize for this. I will be the first person to admit and point out that I get WAY ahead of myself when it comes to the military aviation career field. I am passionate about it, as from what most have said, it's a very rewarding and fulfilling career. Like I said above, I would be happy flying any aircraft and doing any mission within the U.S. military aviation career field. Thank you both for your feedback.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I'll tag both @FormerRecruitingGuru and @Brett327 here. I was in no way trying to imply that I would want to jump ship from whatever community I would be assigned to. I would be happy doing any mission that the United States Military does, and would be happy flying any aircraft in any community. I have zero preference to what I fly as I am not even in the door to commission, let alone attend military flight school. I am currently looking at taking some flight lessons (hopefully through my PPL) to see if I like and have an actual aptitude for flying. In what I have been studying in the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook, it stated how the skills gained through effective PPL training should give any prospective pilot the baseline skills and knowledge to aid in operating any GA airplane. My question was a stick and rudder question aimed at those that in my eyes are much, much further advanced in both their skillsets and the size/ performance capabilites of their aircraft, and how you guys deal with potentially massive changes in aircraft and the performance difference of each.

Thank you for this perspective. I am a nerd when it comes to learning about different aircraft systems, so this first-hand account is interesting in my opinion.

I apologize for this. I will be the first person to admit and point out that I get WAY ahead of myself when it comes to the military aviation career field. I am passionate about it, as from what most have said, it's a very rewarding and fulfilling career. Like I said above, I would be happy flying any aircraft and doing any mission within the U.S. military aviation career field. Thank you both for your feedback.

From the recruiting perspective, I wouldn't pursue the PPL unless you have plans for it outside of the Navy. Aside from helping you determine if you're comfortable flying, that's about it. It won't add any points or leverage with your application.

 

[taxi1]

From the recruiting perspective, I wouldn't pursue the PPL unless you have plans for it outside of the Navy.

From a love-to-fly perspective, flying anything beats not flying, and it should give you confidence that you like it and can do it.

 

[Random13]

From the recruiting perspective, I wouldn't pursue the PPL unless you have plans for it outside of the Navy. Aside from helping you determine if you're comfortable flying, that's about it. It won't add any points or leverage with your application.

Thanks for the advice! I plan on flying as a hobby outside of military flying throughout my military career.

 

[Random13]

From a love-to-fly perspective, flying anything beats not flying, and it should give you confidence that you like it and can do it.

That's exactly where I am at with wanting to earn my PPL. I have never even been in the front seat while flying, let alone at the controls. I have been relegated to the back of the 737 (for obvious reasons) and a high school teacher's 182. Flying for fun and being able to take my family flying for fun are also motivating factors, plus making sure I don't waste the military's time if I don't have the aptitude or confidence to fly is also a factor involving me wanting to pursue my PPL.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Thanks for the advice! I plan on flying as a hobby outside of military flying throughout my military career.

Nothing wrong with going out and getting some lessons. Don't do it for the application or for the Navy because they don't care yet. But also, if you get some hours under your belt, don't learn bad habits, know how to talk on the radio, and are relatively proficient at flying by instruments, you'll have an easier time in primary. At least that was my experience.

 

[taxi1]

That's exactly where I am at with wanting to earn my PPL.

If there is a glider port nearby, go learn to fly gliders. You’ll be a better pilot and have more fun. It's cheaper too.

 

[Random13]

Nothing wrong with going out and getting some lessons. Don't do it for the application or for the Navy because they don't care yet. But also, if you get some hours under your belt, don't learn bad habits, know how to talk on the radio, and are relatively proficient at flying by instruments, you'll have an easier time in primary. At least that was my experience.

Thank you for this advice! I had mulled putting in an application without even taking any lessons, and then thinking through it, I just decided so I don't waste the Navy's or any other branch of the military's time that I actually take some lessons. My friend went in with significant flight time, and his experience was similar in that the experience was helpful during primary. He said with the right attitude is where it can be helpful during primary. Not my reason for getting some flight lessons or even some civilian ratings, but if it were to help me to adjust to the military style of flying then that would be a good ROI on the professional side of flying. Thanks again!

 

[Random13]

If there is a glider port nearby, go learn to fly gliders. You’ll be a better pilot and have more fun. It's cheaper too.

I was actually planning on doing that after I obtain my PPL. There's 2 within an hour of where I live. That type of flying seems fascinating

 

[taxi1]

I was actually planning on doing that after I obtain my PPL. There's 2 within an hour of where I live. That type of flying seems fascinating

You can get your PPL as a glider pilot or a powered pilot. Or even (gasp) flying helicopters. It's all PPL.

Most gliderports will offer an intro glider ride for some cheap amount (and so do powered aircraft). Go take them up on it and see, before jumping into the powered flight.

This is a good reddit thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gliding/comments/15omges

 

[Random13]

Or even (gasp) flying helicopters

I would love to fly helos on the civilian side, I just don't have the funds to pay for it right now unfortunately. At least not through the entire license.

This is a good reddit thread.

Thanks I will check it out! I am taking it @taxi1 that you flew/fly gliders?