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oldest SNA you know of?
- Thread starter fitz8402
- Start date
Age and attrition
I haven't read the study but my first interpretation from what I read above would be that since there are on average a lot fewer people who go through the program that are older, if one fails out then that would raise the percentages of the older people than compared to a 22 year old who fails out, purely b/c so many people are around the 21-23 age group in flight school. As a result it would seem older SNA/SNFO types might have more difficulty but my hunch is that the attrition rates are probably similar across the board.
It's the corrlation doesn't necessarily mean causation statistics argument. What that means is even though there appears to be a correlation between being older and difficulty/attrition rates, age doesn't neccesarrily cause someone to fail. I'd be interested to read the study, but again, I think there might be a whole lot more going on underneath the first glance than meets the eye. Simple percentages can be misleading, the underlying regressions of data and other analysis would be needed for true causation.
That said, I'm of the mindset to say screw the studies and just do the best dam* job you can, it'll all work out in the end.
I haven't read the study but my first interpretation from what I read above would be that since there are on average a lot fewer people who go through the program that are older, if one fails out then that would raise the percentages of the older people than compared to a 22 year old who fails out, purely b/c so many people are around the 21-23 age group in flight school. As a result it would seem older SNA/SNFO types might have more difficulty but my hunch is that the attrition rates are probably similar across the board.
It's the corrlation doesn't necessarily mean causation statistics argument. What that means is even though there appears to be a correlation between being older and difficulty/attrition rates, age doesn't neccesarrily cause someone to fail. I'd be interested to read the study, but again, I think there might be a whole lot more going on underneath the first glance than meets the eye. Simple percentages can be misleading, the underlying regressions of data and other analysis would be needed for true causation.
That said, I'm of the mindset to say screw the studies and just do the best dam* job you can, it'll all work out in the end.
I'm 31 (gonna be 32 in April). I agree, go for it full speed. But as far as PLC ... I wouldn't go that route as the Marines have been tightening their grip on age waivers. When I was getting in (3 years ago) they were saying you had to be commissioned by your 29th B-Day. Since you are prior, that might work in your favor. Again .. I would check with someone closer to the source but take what ever route will get you in the quickest cause the clock is ticking.
Oh yeah ... another guy from my class who got his wings about a month ago was 32 with 2 kids.
Peace,
-Spin
Oh yeah ... another guy from my class who got his wings about a month ago was 32 with 2 kids.
Peace,
-Spin
fitz8402
New Member
Thanks SPIN. I have been researching non stop and from what I have read the only way I could get a contract before I turn 29 is to go PLC. I wont graduate at my current pace (which is wide open) until I am about 29 and a half. I am contacting the OSO Monday to get more info. If it was up to me I would go to OCS after I graduate but I dont want to wait that long if it eliminates my chances of flying.
I wasn't prior service (although everyone else who I know of that got one was). I was 28 whenI applied and 28 1/2 when I got in so I would get commissioned by the time I was 29. The OSO said we would apply for it and see what happend and they approved it. I had to write a letter saying why I should get an age waiver and submit it with my app. I went OCS.
-Spin
Not to be a buzzkill, but I completely believe the study linking age, marital status, and kids with attrition rates. Correlation and causality are difficult to break apart, but from my observational experience as an IP in helo advanced and as a now 33YO guy married with kids, there is a causal relationship.
Flight school, although in reality notas difficult as we sometimes remember, takes a lot of time and committment. Your work hours are sometimes irregular, and when you are home, you spend a lot of time studying. A wife (although there are exceptions that prove the rule) usually isn't too hot on this, especially when there are rugrats running around who want to play with daddy even though he has a checkride tomorrow.
As far as age, lets face it, the older you are, you pick up new things less well. Think about why it's easier to teach languages to younger children. Additionally, the older you are, the less likely you are to enjoy getting crapped on by an IP who's your age or younger.
These things aren't to say that a committed individual can't do it. Just realize that your road will be harder than the 23YO next to you. The stat could just as well say, "50% of 60-year-old men who enter fail to complete the New York Marathon." It doesn't mean it can't be done, just that you have to work harder, be more committed, and have a family who's committed to your success as well.
Flight school, although in reality notas difficult as we sometimes remember, takes a lot of time and committment. Your work hours are sometimes irregular, and when you are home, you spend a lot of time studying. A wife (although there are exceptions that prove the rule) usually isn't too hot on this, especially when there are rugrats running around who want to play with daddy even though he has a checkride tomorrow.
As far as age, lets face it, the older you are, you pick up new things less well. Think about why it's easier to teach languages to younger children. Additionally, the older you are, the less likely you are to enjoy getting crapped on by an IP who's your age or younger.
These things aren't to say that a committed individual can't do it. Just realize that your road will be harder than the 23YO next to you. The stat could just as well say, "50% of 60-year-old men who enter fail to complete the New York Marathon." It doesn't mean it can't be done, just that you have to work harder, be more committed, and have a family who's committed to your success as well.
I was prior enlisted turning 30 at OCS . Wife squeezed out a pup while I was in API so I had a newborn through primary & intermediate (I do not recommend this). The CG liaison gave the same soul-crushing speech that EODDave recieved (I forgot to thank that Jackass). I ignored his speculation that I would not make it through, as this did not mesh with my plans to leave training with a set of wings.
Did age make it harder? No. I had lots of maturity, as well as experience in the fleet to not have unrealistice expectations (ever heard "Aviation is just too stressful. I don't want to do this for the rest of my career" as if the fleet is just like the training command.) Did my situation in life with a crumb-snatcher and wife (things that require time and can take away from studying) make training harder? You bet, as spousal support is important, and spouses can get resentful if you are unable to really help them with the feeding/diaper changing, etc. as well as spend lots of quality time with them. And getting a good night sleep (near impossible with newborns) is nice to have for those early morning briefs.
It being difficult just made it that much more sweet. If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Did age make it harder? No. I had lots of maturity, as well as experience in the fleet to not have unrealistice expectations (ever heard "Aviation is just too stressful. I don't want to do this for the rest of my career" as if the fleet is just like the training command.) Did my situation in life with a crumb-snatcher and wife (things that require time and can take away from studying) make training harder? You bet, as spousal support is important, and spouses can get resentful if you are unable to really help them with the feeding/diaper changing, etc. as well as spend lots of quality time with them. And getting a good night sleep (near impossible with newborns) is nice to have for those early morning briefs.
It being difficult just made it that much more sweet. If it was easy, anyone could do it.
fitz8402
New Member
I am currently enrolled in 4 accelerated schedule college courses and I work 60+ hours a week. I have a 3.6 GPA and I still manage to find time to PT and spend time with the wife. I was married while I was an enlisted marine so my wife completely understands what it is like for me to be away on med cruises and work crazy hours. I am not saying all of this to be cocky, far from it. I am just trying to point out that I have my head screwed on strait and that I am still highly capable of learning new things. All I need is the opportunity to succeed. I am going to the OSO as soon as I know my PRK is successful.
RetreadRand said:
Yeah, but being extra ugly and constantly complaining about the flight schedule carried you a long way. Oh yeah and I guess being a lazy E-6 nfo must have helped you get thru.
Now go back to flying your Learjet or whatever they got you flying up there.