If there's a "V" on the COM, one would be safe in assuming that they deserved it, right?
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Personal Awards (split from "Officer Sword")
- Thread starter taproot2779
- Start date
If there's a "V" on the COM, one would be safe in assuming that they deserved it, right?
Not necessarily. The V does not stand for valor. The V is a combat distinguishing device. It may mean that the guy got it while involved in combat operations. For example, during Desert Storm, my Battle Groups Admiral awarded Navy Commendation medals with Vs to all his watch officers. They never got off the ship, never got shot at and were never heroic. No "valor" was involved. It was the Admiral's gift to his staff - sort of like end of tour/war awards. The carrier's TAOs and OODs were more involved in combat operations than these guys and did not receive any awards.
The Silver Star, Navy Cross and Medal of Honor are specific awards for gallantry or "valor". As such, they have no V device as it is a given.
The Achievement Medal, Commendation Medal, Air Medal and Distinguished Flying Cross may be awarded for specific actions or for a period of service. If these awards were during combat operations, they than get a V. If there is "heroism" involved, it will say so in the citation.
The Bronze Star is the wartime equivalent of the Meritorious Service Medal. It may be awarded for specific actions or for a period of service. It may also be awarded for supporting combat operations even if outside the immediate combat zone. If the recipient was involved in combat operations, the Bronze Star may have a V. If heroism is involved, is will say so in the citation.
I would venture to say that an Air Medal, DFC or Bronze Star with a V probably involved some sort of heroism and I would treat them as such. This is possible but not necessarily so for Achievement or Commendation medals.
This is all based on my experience of being drafted as a "awards writer" by the Admiral's staff after Desert Storm. I don't know how it is being done today but the regulations haven't changed.
I totally agree with HAL Pilot's, "Not necessarily."
The "deserving" unfortunately depends more on the service branch involved, the specific community within that service branch, the specific command, and the particular conflict involved, than it does on the individuals' uncommon actions.
I remember hearing of Air Force ground maintenance personnel, safely here in the US receiving combat medals for launching B-2's, even though they were half a world away from the combat zone.
Over the years, most all awards have become incredibly inflated, and thus devalued. Re-read A-4's post where all his many combat missions under heavy enemy fire only amounted to "almost 3 rows" back in the day, whereas today that would be well over 5 rows even with far fewer and safer missions.
Because of ever increasing inconsistencies and medal devaluation, it is impossible today to have any true idea of how deserving one was of all (except for maybe the highest level ) awards, including those with the "Combat 'V'."
It is a sad state of affairs. Fortunately, DoD now has a commission specifically to correct the gross discrepancies and standardize the process of awards. It's about time.
Agreed. Over my last 17 yrs, I've seen a rapid degradation in the criteria necessary to deserve a particular award. Used to be that awards were given for meritorious service, but more and more it seems to be as earlier put "failed to F up." Joint commands are particularly bad. I refused to endorse a request from a civilian supervisor for a separating new E-5 for a Joint Com. Higher authority agreed - no leadership/management responsibilities for said E-5. Civ supervisor just couldn't understand (and he was prior Army). Told him the E-5 was lucky to get a separating Achv. and that there's no way in the Navy we'd submit, let alone approve a Com level award for just being an all-around great person. Std procedure in the past (my past anyway) was a hearty handshake and "good luck." Saw a young brand new 3rd class sporting a NAM given for having been #1 in a follow-on school after A School. Made me feel like I could use my QAO EOT NAM citation as a coaster - provided I folded it into quarters to be more cocktail napkin-sized of course.
Thisguy
Pain-in-the-dick
My pet peeve is people who get a good conduct medal from BDCP. This is because they usually earned it by being in BDCP for 2+ years, then roll and stay at OCS for 6-12 months.
It gets better. They then proudly wear it with the national defense medal and say they were prior-enlisted. To any current BDCP folk who didn't spend any time in the fleet, don't go around saying you were "prior-enlisted". You got the pay bump on your LES, just leave it at that.
I retired with 8 complete rows including 10 personal awards ranging from NAMs to DMSM plus an Air Medal. I could easily have had another complete row if I had applied for the stupid volunteer one, accepted a Humanitarian Service Medal for helping to clean up after a hurricane while I was on leave (it was my neighborhood for God's sake - my house & yard even) or have had 1 more day flying above the Artic Circle. It was kind of ridiculous. That's for only 17 years vice 20 too as I took an early retirement in 1998 when they were still offering them.
In addition to personal awards, part of the contributing problem is that for each "operation" the powers that be feel the need to have a completely new campaign ribbon/medal. You've got the guys who were part of SEA with their own, SW Asia for Gulf I and early OSW, Kosovo, AFSM for Bosnia, GWOT Exp. (which wasn't good enough, so there's now separate Iraq and Afg campaign medals), plus Armed Forces Exp, plus Navy Exp for Navy-specific actions...JMUA, MUC, NUC, NDSM, etc. etc. etc. AFEM and NEM could cover any/all of these if you ask me, but "we can't have stars on medals...we need a brand new one to cover this two week action..."
VP was good for a bunch of misc. theater unit awards like Arctic service, Coast Guard SOS (Haiti), Bosnia (NATO), Kuwait liberation, and a couple expeditionary ones for stuff "south of the border."
Brett
fudog50
Registered User
Well,,,
What is the "points" for personal awards (NMCAMs. NMCOMS, etc) advancement criteria for officers? Anyone in here sit on an 0-4 or above or CWO board? Is there any points given? And is it different for EOT's and Special Actions? I think it is,,,,
I know for a fact that points are given for enlisted for advancement all the way to E-6. And E-7 and above get points too but in a different way for the boards.
After 25 years, I got my share, some "warranted" some not so "warranted". I got more as a senior enlisted than as an officer. There were times I thought I shoulda got more, and a couple times I didn't believe I deserved it, it all washes out I suppose. I know I'll be lucky to walk away from this current tour with a NMCOM, and it has been by far the most challenging.
I have also signed awards as MMCO for E-6's getting their 6th NMCAM. (???)
But the point is that it is competitive and they get points for them. So you are almost trapped into giving the guys and gals the awards so they can compete at the same level as the rest of the fleet. Sure, there are those that will try to be righteous and not give the awards because they don't agree with this huge fact. It is a big dillema; pump up your ego and not buy into the system, or go ahead and give them out to those deserving as the rest for advancement. Thats what we get paid the big bucks for is to make that decision, and thankfully we have that option.
It also changes from flag to flag and CO to CO what the criteria is at the time. Believe me, the different Awards instructions, Boards and those given out have been a side story in itself over 25 years.
What is the "points" for personal awards (NMCAMs. NMCOMS, etc) advancement criteria for officers? Anyone in here sit on an 0-4 or above or CWO board? Is there any points given? And is it different for EOT's and Special Actions? I think it is,,,,
I know for a fact that points are given for enlisted for advancement all the way to E-6. And E-7 and above get points too but in a different way for the boards.
After 25 years, I got my share, some "warranted" some not so "warranted". I got more as a senior enlisted than as an officer. There were times I thought I shoulda got more, and a couple times I didn't believe I deserved it, it all washes out I suppose. I know I'll be lucky to walk away from this current tour with a NMCOM, and it has been by far the most challenging.
I have also signed awards as MMCO for E-6's getting their 6th NMCAM. (???)
But the point is that it is competitive and they get points for them. So you are almost trapped into giving the guys and gals the awards so they can compete at the same level as the rest of the fleet. Sure, there are those that will try to be righteous and not give the awards because they don't agree with this huge fact. It is a big dillema; pump up your ego and not buy into the system, or go ahead and give them out to those deserving as the rest for advancement. Thats what we get paid the big bucks for is to make that decision, and thankfully we have that option.
It also changes from flag to flag and CO to CO what the criteria is at the time. Believe me, the different Awards instructions, Boards and those given out have been a side story in itself over 25 years.
Wait a second, I have seen this before and I am not even in the service yet. It is called grade inflation. There's a professor at Harvard that gives out 2 grades in his classes. One grade goes to the registrar (and is similar to the rest of the department) and the other grade shows you what you would have gotten back in the late 70's or early 80's. Needless to say the difference is significant.
So to make sure your men get the advancements they deserve, you need to keep them competitive with (sometimes) unnecessary awards? Is this a case of "Don't hate the player, hate the game?" If so, then isn't the problem more systemic than just revamping the awards system, to include advancement boards and billet assignments?
So to make sure your men get the advancements they deserve, you need to keep them competitive with (sometimes) unnecessary awards? Is this a case of "Don't hate the player, hate the game?" If so, then isn't the problem more systemic than just revamping the awards system, to include advancement boards and billet assignments?