Pilot to NFO

[Schnugg]

I knew an F-14 RIO (callsign Famous) that went through the VF-124 F-14 FRS all the way to the CQ phase. He DQ'd at the boat. He requested for and was sent back to VT-10/VT-86 to become an NFO. Did a very abbreviated version of NFO training.

Here's the kicker...he finished VT-86, traded in his pilot wings and earned NFO wings.

Went back to the VF-124 FRS did a quick trip through the syllabus...went on to a squadron as an NFO. He had one fleet tour before his first look at O-4, he'd beenin the training command getting NOBs for a long time.

So it can be done, you just don't see it as a request that often unless there is an underlying cause.

 

[xmid]

Here's the kicker...he finished VT-86, traded in his pilot wings and earned NFO wings.

He had to give up his pilot wings?! Why did he have to give those back after he earned them? I thought they couldn't really take them back once you winged?...

 

[A4sForever]

He had to give up his pilot wings?! Why did he have to give those back after he earned them? I thought they couldn't really take them back once you winged?...

I dunno the "technical" term you're looking for -- besides the guys who lose their Wings for DQ's at the ship early in the game or for flight incidents/accidents anytime (and you CAN lose your Wings at the BOAT ANY time for continued sub par performance -- doesn't have to be on early or initial Nugget CQ - at least that was the way it was) but I once "took" a guys Wings because he repeatedly couldn't do it at the BOAT, i.e., he DQ'ed while a qualified Winged Aviator -- how he got qualified initially and got that far is beyond me -- I guess it was just a matter of time and I was the LSO whose number came up when it was crunch time --- i.e., he didn't wear them -- Aviator Wings -- anymore and changed designators. In fact, he might have got out .... can't remember for sure.

At the ship -- the LSO's are constantly looking and evaluating the Air Wing pilots -- unless they are not doing their job. I truly hope that has not changed ...

We had another pilot "voluntarily" give up/turn in his Wings at the ship and later became an excellent A/I .... just not in the same Air Wing.

 

[Schnugg]

His designator was 1320 not 1310. It was an unusual case as he was FNAEB'd but sent back for re-training in a new designator.

I don't know if he can wear both on a dress uniform or not, as he's not like Retread who left NFO land in good standing to become a pilot albeit less the FNAEB the other guy went through.

Good post by A4s above also sheds light on this.

 

[DevilDog9782]

I have definately seen one guy with both sets of wings on his chest - looked really strange. Same type story...earned wings, DQ'd on the boat earned new wings. He was able to wear both on his uniform.

As for switching SNA - SNFO, anything is possible and I've seen stranger - but in the end I think it would have to do with what the service needs at the time. If they are hurting for NA's, then it will be a no-go, if vice versa, then you get the point. Things like that seem to change with who you talk to/who is directly in charge/etc. If possible, best time to switch is earliest as possible..ie. before you commission. Otherwise, you will have to ask around when you get here.

 

[A4sForever]

.... Same type story...earned wings, DQ'd on the boat earned new wings. He was able to wear both on his uniform.....

Must be somethin' "new" ... as none of our guys, repeat: none .... who were slated for a carrier squadron and DQ'ed at the BOAT and went back through as an NFO were able to wear their NA Wings on any uniform thereafter ... 'cause they "lost" 'em. Can't wear 'em anymore ....

Note: this is different than someone who chooses change seats and become a Naval Aviator after a stint as an NFO ... they can wear 'em both. Although, in my experience ... I never saw any do it. Doesn't mean it won't happen ....

The A/I I referenced (above) who "turned in his Wings" did not continue to wear his NA Wings, either. I believe he wore them on a dress uniform, but he was the subject of derision as a result. Right or wrong ... it happened.

But Hey!!! That was "then" ... this is "now" ... if things have changed that much, forget everything I said ....

 

[llnick2001]

I have definately seen one guy with both sets of wings on his chest - looked really strange.

It looked strange for a reason. Unless the regs have changed, you aren't authorized to wear 2 warfare pins from the same category.

 

[Hozer]

It looked strange for a reason. Unless the regs have changed, you aren't authorized to wear 2 warfare pins from the same category.

exactly.

http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter5/CHAPTER_5.htm#chap52012a

 

[Flash]

I knew an F-14 RIO (callsign Famous) that went through the VF-124 F-14 FRS all the way to the CQ phase. He DQ'd at the boat. He requested for and was sent back to VT-10/VT-86 to become an NFO. Did a very abbreviated version of NFO training.

Here's the kicker...he finished VT-86, traded in his pilot wings and earned NFO wings.

Went back to the VF-124 FRS did a quick trip through the syllabus...went on to a squadron as an NFO. He had one fleet tour before his first look at O-4, he'd beenin the training command getting NOBs for a long time.

So it can be done, you just don't see it as a request that often unless there is an underlying cause.

Same thing happened to a Marine out of the Prowler RAG, DQ'd at night CQ and came back as an NFO. Don't know if he wore his Pilot wings after that.

As for the guys who wear two sets of wings, I have seen NFO's who transition to Pilot and Flight Doc's who had earned with NFO or NA wings wear them with Mess Dress uniforms, and that is it. No one gave them grief for it, including AIRPAC at one Dining Out. They wore one set of wings on their everyday uniforms, a callsign of 'Doc' usually was a giveaway for the FS's, or pilot wings for the TranvesFO's.

Those guys earned both though and never lost either one.

 

[Flying Low]

It looked strange for a reason. Unless the regs have changed, you aren't authorized to wear 2 warfare pins from the same category.

I have been trying for years to get part of this changed. I think NA/NFO's who have also earned their EAWS wings should be allowed to wear them. Same for SWO and ESWS. Just a wording change would suffice. Something to the effect of allowing service members to wear gold and silver.

 

[Goober]

When I was in VT-86, there were a couple T-45 washouts that came through...I have never heard of a primary washout going in as an NFO.

Been there (switched by choice). Also had two rag classmates who were attrites that picked up NFO. They were both Corpus, and I was a Whiting guy. It happens.

 

[Steeljaw Scribe]

Apropos "losing wings" and losing the right to wear wings where FNAEB/FNFOEB's (Field Naval Aviator Evaluation Board/Field NFO Evaluation Board)are concerned (insert old guy disclaimer about rules changes here) - it wasn't until one scraped the bottom of the FNAEB barrel with a B2 recommendation that one was forbidden to wear one's wings.

Quick recap: There are two basic recommendations a FNAEB can make, retain in flight status and terminate flight status. If retained, one can be returned to flight status (A1)(since one is grounded upon convening of a FNAEB), returned via the FRS for refresher/additional training (A2), sent back but in a different command(squadron and airwing)(A3), or returned to flight status but in a probationary status (A4) (usually for folks who are otehrwise good aviators but can't seem to qual at the boat). If terminated, one is either alowed to continue the priviledge of wearing wings (B1) or has that priviledge revoked (B2). (note: am hearing that A2 and A3 have been combined since my time -- disclaimer noted above still in effect)

When I was at AIRLANT as the VAW Training and Readiness guy in the "Ready Room" (and with the AIRLANT LSO, the junior JO in an office populated by post-command O-5's...that was fun...:icon_smil) I was also the AIRLANT FNAEB coordinator and working on my double centurion patch by the time I went on to my DH tour. Of all the cases we worked, only two were recommended as B2 and both centered on egregious behavior by the SNA (lying) in combination with his offense(s). Word of advice -- never lie at the big green table. Inclination at the time was to normally give the guy a break, send him back with 6 mos probation and a re-qual (most A4's were initial DQs at the FRS) and +90% usually did well going back. I remember one who didn't and got picked up pretty quickly by the nuke program (guy had a PhD from MIT in nuclear physics but couldn't qual at the boat...). There were a coulpe who were allowed to transition to the NFO program as well.

Oh yes, and for reference, while I ended up handling FNAEBs (and FNFOEBs) on folks from every single community, some (*cough* VF *cough*) provided the lion's share at times...

 

[MasterBates]

FNAEB's are no joke. A most unpleasant experience.

And I was just a witness.

 

[Steeljaw Scribe]

FNAEB's are no joke. A most unpleasant experience.

And I was just a witness.

Concur - I was the last Fleet contact the guys had post AIRLANT review board/00 interview before either going back to the Fleet or up to the Bureau (in the case of a "B"-type decision). Most heartbreaking was a really great guy who was 4th gen. Navy, 2nd gen aviator who washed out of the FRS... After a while, one began to feel like the roving executioner when placing the initial phonecall inviting the SNA/SNFO's presence to AIRLANT for the board and 00 interview ("oh yeah (long pause) they told me you'd be the one calling, I just didn't think it would be this soon...").

 

[A4sForever]

Concur - ....Most heartbreaking was a really great guy who was 4th gen. Navy, 2nd gen aviator who washed out of the FRS... ...

It was tough -- if you had any heart at all -- and we all knew why we were "there" -- we ALL wanted into Naval Aviation --- that great common bond.

BUT: I always put a lot of myself into each and every 'board' I was involved with -- all 5 -- 3 of 'em they took my recommendations in the final decision -- 2 of 'em they basically blew me off as being "too-hard".

One of those 2 "too-hard ups" has been dead for decades -- took a stash Ensign and an airplane with him -- the other one just lost an airplane. No Speedy-Board for him (the "street" term then) -- they just sent him packin' ...

Nice guys all --- just not cut out for the job. It was the same in the airlines. That's the tough part for me ... knowing who's "right" and who is "not" .... and getting rid of "good guys" who aren't "right" ...