Pinochet in the news...one last time

[scoober78]

I thought not.

So uh...what is it? Don't feel like it changes my point though...the logical comparison is similar. We supported Saddam (this much is clear ) due to a more pressing national interest over other lesser geo-political concerns...How does this comparison not work, regardless of whether the support was?

 

[Flash]

The end does not always justify the means, that is the phrase that comes to mind with Pinochet. Good riddance.....

That said, he was the lesser of two evils at the time and Chile is now a vibrant democracy with a government and people that are not ill-disposed to the US. Allende was not the great hero he has been made out to be, after all he commit suicide with a gun Castro gave him......

 

[A4sForever]

The end does not always justify the means, that is the phrase that comes to mind with Pinochet. ...That said, he was the lesser of two evils at the time and Chile is now a vibrant democracy with a government and people that are not ill-disposed to the US.....

Right. That's a perfect example of when the END DOES JUSTIFY THE MEANS ... and it happens quite often, in spite of the "bad rap" it's given ...

It's also too bad that one of our members who has possibly the "best" picture of a modern-day, post Pinochet country is not able to comment at this time. I guess that's what we call .... ironic???

 

[zab1001]

I like receiving my paycheck, what can I say...

 

[Brett327]

How does this comparison not work, regardless of whether the support was?

I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how we supported Saddam. Since you suggested a parity, or at least a strong similarity between our "support" of Pinochet and Saddam, I'd like you to quantify the exact nature of that relationship. Even if what you've claimed is true, US support during one discrete period of history can not necessarily be compared to another. People (usually the left) are so quick to cry hypocrisy in matters such as these. "We supported Saddam, and NOW look what happened!" "We supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and NOW look what happened!" Tell me, was it hypocrisy to first oppose, then support Italy during WWII? No, a change in the posture and policies of Italy warranted a change in US policy. The same logic applies elsewhere.

Brett

 

[scoober78]

I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how we supported Saddam.

Not even going to respond to this... .......again......

Since you suggested a parity, or at least a strong similarity between our "support" of Pinochet and Saddam, I'd like you to quantify the exact nature of that relationship. Even if what you've claimed is true, US support during one discrete period of history can not necessarily be compared to another.

I am suggesting parity not in the type of support (ie arms, dollars etc...) but in the fact that they were relationships of opportunity. We supported both, not because of any love of the individual, but because we saw our motives served more effectively by them than the alternatives. It was a strictly pragmatic decision. That is why I typed this...

The bottom line here is, that since we live in a messy, dangerous world, we are forced to support and be supported by people for practical reasons that we may not normally for ethical reasons. I have no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is calling that relationship anything other than what it is...a relationship of opportunity...

Am I just being thick???? (Or are you... ) My comparison is about circumstances...not substance.

 

[Flash]

Right. That's a perfect example of when the END DOES JUSTIFY THE MEANS ... and it happens quite often, in spite of the "bad rap" it's given ...

It's also too bad that one of our members who has possibly the "best" picture of a modern-day, post Pinochet country is not able to comment at this time. I guess that's what we call .... ironic???

Maybe you are right in this case, Chile is not such a bad place right now. But it doesn't bring any great credit to the US for backing Pinochet, his regime was resposible for 3000-4000 deaths.

At least this one hasn't come back to bite us in the ass yet like Somoza, Pahlavi, Batista, Diem and a few others.

 

[Brett327]

Am I just being thick???? (Or are you... )

Are you calling me fat? All I'm saying is that just because I excuse one dubious character with whom the US was at one point involved, doesn't imply that I have to excuse all of them. Saddam and Pinochet are not equivalent in any way. Neither were equally brutal, nor did they bring equal benefit to the US. So, by making this statement,

why aren't you standing up for Saddam?

...you imply hypocrisy, when in fact, none exists. Capiche?

Brett

 

[scoober78]

Saddam and Pinochet are not equivalent in any way.

You mean in any other way than that they were both "US supported"...



I keed, I keed....

Your point is taken BTW...

 

[A4sForever]

A small sampling:

Nguyen Cao Ky
Ferdinand Marcos
Lee Kuan Yew
Anastasio Somoza Debayle
Ngo Dinh Diem
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq
Pervez Musharraf
Chiang Kai-shek
Fulgencio Batista
.....

How could I be so remiss ... ???

Especially since some of his boys stood me and 3 Amigos up against a wall with their Schmeissers in 1968 in Palma, Majorca .... for taking pictures:

.... *sigh* .... "Our Guy" ... he did it "his way" ...

Francisco Paulino Hermenegildo Teódulo Franco y Bahamonde Salgado Pardo ... better known as the "Generalissimo" ..... or "El Caudillio" ...

.....a famous quote: "Our regime is based on bayonets and blood, not on hypocritical elections."

 

[Intruder Driver]

Hey A4sForever, I tell folks that ask the A4 was the best plane I ever flew, and I have time in the A6, T2, T34, F4, F-16, EA-6B, and others, but nothing was better than the scooter. As a flight instructor in Meridian in the late 80's, we flew single seat A-4E's as part of an evaluation to see if they were usable as flight leads and CQ lead safe birds. While we loved flying them, they were way too overpowered, since all the avionics in the humpback were removed and other items as well, so that we were a light airplane with the same big engine. I bagged the first trap in one in 1988 that was the first one attempted with all the weight removed. I was at idle crossing the ramp the first time, since we were landing at low weights, having been flying circles overhead for over 1.5 hours burning gas while our studs got their cats and traps. We only got to keep them in Meridian for a couple years before they were sent away, but I did manage to snag about 25 traps in them. I also did PMCFs in them slick (no drop tanks), and I am convinced we could have gotten them 'pure' supersonic coming out of 40,000 feet, but no of us really wanted to experiment with it (I stopped at mach 0.97 every time coming through 30,000 feet). What a blast.

 

[A4sForever]

Hey A4sForever, I tell folks that ask the A4 was the best plane I ever flew...

Funny how that little Scooter affects people who drive it .... when folks ask, I tell 'em that the B-747 Whale was my SECOND favorite all-time airplane ... it always makes 'em ask about the first ... and we know what that one is/was ...