Spoken by someone who's never done a Navy course of fire. I had to buy my own M-11 and ammo to get proficient for the sand box.
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Pistol qualification at OCS?
- Thread starter Bert Beryy
- Start date
Spoken by someone who's never done a Navy course of fire. I had to buy my own M-11 and ammo to get proficient for the sand box.
No, clearly I haven't. Could you elaborate?
Edit: I gather that you're saying the training at OCS is pretty much worthless. Well, I'd imagine some of the guys going to OCS have never even held a gun before. Isn't it worth teaching people some safety and handling, if not marksmanship, before sending them to the fleet?
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Eh, not really.
For aviators, it's going to be years of flight training in CONUS before they even hit the Fleet.
Truth is most designators in the USN don't really have a requirement to be armed and proficient with a sidearm. And if they do, they'll usually shoot so many rounds in the training process that a 50rd handgun qual from a year ago becomes insignificant.
44magnum
Active Member
As a Navy Small Arms Marksmanship Instructor, I'll add my opinion to the matter. Firearms are a basic military requirement. Many of us will never NEED to know firefighting, damage control, the general orders, or what day Pearl Harbor was attacked, but it is part of being in the Navy, and knowing how to shoot might save your life or someone else's someday. Sure, your qual will expire after 6 months and only SWOs will be standing OOD in-port anytime soon. But OCS is only basic military training, and firearms should be part of that exposure. All skills will require additional training. Yes, I agree that to become truly proficient, you need to buy your own gun and ammo and spend your own time on the range. And for those who say it's a waste of money, one can argue that about a few other things at OCS (and many things in the Navy) as well. At the most basic level, the purpose of the military is to kill people and blow things up. Well welcome aboard, and learn to use a gun. (Plus it immediately doubles the amount of ribbons most of you will graduate with).
44magnum
Active Member
Well, in order to earn the ribbon you need to qualify, so yes.
44magnum
Active Member
You will most likely earn the ribbon. The handgun course of fire really isn't that hard, and to qualify you only need a score of 180 out of 240. The stressful environment and lack of sleep will be a variable though. The biggest problem I see is when people get nervous and start shaking uncontrollably. That's why I always like to run a relaxed range where people feel comfortable and not scared. OCS probably isn't like that though. I have seen many new shooters go right up and score expert on their first try, and many experienced guys who can never shoot expert. Some people are naturals and others aren't.
And just to clarify, there are 3 levels of qualification: marksman, sharpshooter, and expert. If you earn sharpshooter or expert, you would attach an "S" or "E" device to your ribbon. It's hard to shoot expert, but just earning marksman is generally easy as long as 1) no safety violations, 2) you pay attention to instructions, and 3) you shoot your own target (not your neighbor's)
You've never been an Ensign in the Navy either, but in only 90 days, you'll earn that.... soooo, just follow instructions, and if you don't shoot yourself, your Instructor, or a fellow 'Wonder' in the foot
... in just a few hours you'll double your ribbon rack!
BzB
Yes, but qualify for what? Destroying paper? They don't make you stop wearing the ribbon once your "qualification" has expired, right?. I'm authorized to wear the ribbon, with a shiny 'E' too, and no one ever told me to take it off 6 months after the range day when I became "unqualified."
What was I qualified for? Standing an armed watch? Just trying to learn. Thanks.
44magnum
Active Member
Sure, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic BTW.
Once you earn the ribbon, you keep it for life. If you get expert once, then fail for the next 20 years, you still can wear an expert ribbon. Just to stay qualified, you need a sustainment qualification semi-annually, or no later than 8 months.
You qualified on the Navy Handgun Qualification Course (NHQC) which qualifies you to carry an M-9 for personal protection as a non-security and non-expeditionary watchstander. What that means essentially is shipboard quarterdeck watchstanders (who are not considered security) and aviation personnel. Everyone else needs the Practical Weapons Course, Low Light Course, and Security Reaction Force-Basic.
Ok, that all makes sense. Thanks for the info!
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I was commenting on doing the pistol qualification at OCS if they are run similar to the fleet, not maintaining proficiency with a firearm in general.
I wish the Navy did more to maintain pistol proficiency, but range schedules, money for ammo, and the fact that it's not mission-critical for most Sailors to be able to be expert shooters means that it takes a back burner.
There's a qual for practically everything in the Navy. To carry a firearm on watch/duty, you need to qualify armed watchstander, which is basically a PQS about weapon safety and features of the applicable firearms you'll be shooting. I don't know if they'll sign this off at OCS as I didn't shoot there, but you'll have to do it on the ship if not. It takes about 5 minutes if you know your ass from your elbow with weapons. You'll also qualify small arms supervisor if you are a swo/sub guy so that you can supervise weapon turnover. Those quals never lose proficiency.
What happens after 6 months for pistol (well, technically 8) is you lose proficiency with the weapon. So you have to shoot again to be considered proficient. You are still 'qualified,' even if you aren't proficient.
Yes, the shooting part of the qualification is hitting a paper target standing still/kneeling from various distances.
He was there when I went through a year ago, when it was just a safety course. I assume it's the same guy, since there's only a handful of CWO5's in the Navy. He asked us to call him Gunner, if that rings any bells.