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Plane Crash in KY

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I could see how some people might use the reverse of that. Use the "known" runway heading to adjust their DG. Could provide some interesting results.
BAD idea unless at a familiar field . . . You check your DG on startup and adjust on your wet compass or just general sanity check if an INS . . . From then on, for the most part, it is sanity checking you.

Lunken airport in Cincinatti has a similar taxiway layout between runways 25 and 21L. I remember being momentarily confused on a XC there in the Goshawk. In my case my instructor and I were trying to outrun an upcoming Presidential TFR (long story) to get out of there and had already flexed from our original plan due to weather, so I was fotzing with charts and approach plates and also taxiing as he was furiously plugging in INS waypoints and coordinating our IFR clearance. So distractions were certainly present. We didn't come close to taking the wrong runway, but I remember thinking "dang, that's odd" at the runway layout and verifying with my IP that we were indeed pointing the right way. Wink is absolutely right. Good habit patterns will save your skin.

You can minimize the risks of air travel but no one lives forever or is perfect. I have always viewed takeoff as one of the most dangerous parts of any flight. Too many things can go wrong while going too fast too close to the ground and being confined in your area to maneuver. I view a high-speed abort as possibly more dangerous than even an ejection, though one may lead to another. Gotta be on your game before you point the nose downrange and advance the throttle(s).
 

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
I may just be a silly civilian pilot, but if there isn't a designated run-up area, we normally do our run-ups on a taxiway. I am curious, why that was any indication that something was amiss.

This is true...however, it was readily apparent that this was not the case based on the guys location.
 

PU Grad

MAC flight user
pilot
BAD idea unless at a familiar field . . . You check your DG on startup and adjust on your wet compass or just general sanity check if an INS . . . From then on, for the most part, it is sanity checking you.

I didn't mean to imply that it was a good idea. It is something that should be avoided. I was just pointing out a way that they could have gotten messed up.
 

Schnugg

It's gettin' a bit dramatic 'round here...
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
My runway checks in GA were "TLC"

Transponder - on
Lights - on
Compass - check heading
 

nugget81

Well-Known Member
pilot
The breakdown in CRM continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060830/ap_on_re_us/kentucky_crash

"The lone air traffic controller on duty the morning Comair Flight 5191 crashed cleared the jet for takeoff, then turned his back to do some 'administrative duties' as the aircraft veered down the wrong runway, a federal investigator said Tuesday.
Separately, the Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged violating its own policies when it assigned only one controller to the Lexington tower." (emphasis mine)
 

Cobra Commander

Awesome Bill from Dawsonville
pilot
If you watch the video of the crash site some lady points out where you can see the "fan belt coming out". Reporters are stupid.
 

e6bflyer

Used to Care
pilot
Mefesto said:
This controller shortage has been a long time in the making. This accident will only serve to highlight something that the FAA has been screaming about for a long time.

The shortage of controllers is pretty sad, but I don't think it was a contributing factor in this accident. I was beating up the pattern in Lubbock about a year ago, and was surprised to find out that the same guy who was approach was also tower. Much to my amazement, when we full stopped and taxied back around to takeoff, the same guy was also ground and clearance. Talk about overworked!
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think controllers are required to monitor each aircraft to ensure that they are taking the correct runway. I think that is strictly on the pilots, who should have read back the whole takeoff clearance.
The whole situation sucks, but I don't think more guys in the tower would have prevented it.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
The shortage of controllers is pretty sad, but I don't think it was a contributing factor in this accident. I was beating up the pattern in Lubbock about a year ago, and was surprised to find out that the same guy who was approach was also tower. Much to my amazement, when we full stopped and taxied back around to takeoff, the same guy was also ground and clearance. Talk about overworked!
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think controllers are required to monitor each aircraft to ensure that they are taking the correct runway. I think that is strictly on the pilots, who should have read back the whole takeoff clearance.
The whole situation sucks, but I don't think more guys in the tower would have prevented it.
I've flown into many airports at night where the same guy did clearance, ground, tower and approach. A lot of the time he would just put everyone on the same frequency. It's not that usual.
 

Jen

Wife of a Growler stud
I live here in Lexington, Kentucky.. and this is a very sad situation. People here are in shock. They have allowed family members to take bus rides to the actual crash site, and the community has been standing on the side of the road by the airport holding up signs telling family members how much they care. It truly is a sad situation. I feel absolutely awful for those who have lost a loved one because of this mistake. What makes it worse.. is the Lexington newspaper is printing advertisements for law firms reaching out to the family members trying to start some crazy big lawsuit.. just 3 days after the whole incident took place! I feel horrible for those that have lost someone. It's very sad how people crave this sort of thing to make an extra buck.
 

pdx

HSM Pilot
It's fine for the same controller to do multiple duties as long as his/her workload permits.

I've been flying around P'cola in the evenings. It can still be quite busy, but with only a few controllers. One time, the controller had a full blown helmet fire (or headset fire, whatever). The traffic was pretty intense (and I was only hearing the UHF traffic) and the controller couldn't handle it. He made a few bad calls, then the flames erupted. A few of the IPs were able to deconflict themselves over VHF. We turned around and hung out outside the class C for a while. It took about 2 minutes for things to sort out.

Bottom line is there is no way that a guy with his level of training/skill should have been handling all of that traffic alone.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Tonight I had a PAR controller bring me into RW-5 with and a S-3 on a TACAN23.

Controllers make mistakes. See and avoid if VMC, regardless of flight plan. I was on a no-gyro (practice) approach in the goo.. Scary stuff at times, all the controllers were stepping on each other on 243...
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Mefesto said:
One thing that no one seems to understand, or acknowledge... It is not the local controllers (tower) responsibility to watch what you do, once cleared to do it. If he clears you to land on runway umpty squat, and you land on something else... guess whose at fault. It goes the otherway too. If they clear you to take off on runway xx, they can turn their back and make coffee if they want. You fong it away, it's NOT THEIR FAULT. Their duties are control of the local airspace, safe and expeditious arrivals and departures. Some google nerd can search through the 7110.65 and post the exact verbage if you want.
Yes, but if you ask a random member of the public who is in charge and has ultimate responsibility, I bet 95% would not say the PIC. The media has been treating this IMO (if not in their prose then in their tone) as if the controller was ultimately responsible for the life/safety of the aircraft. I guess to some people we're just a bunch of trained monkeys . . .
 

gregsivers

damn homeowners' associations
pilot
I think when I flew into College Station back in Primary there was only one controller in the tower. Granted Houston Center was the "Approach", but there was only one dude I talked to. Same guy's voice on ATIS and in the tower. The tower freq was the only one we used there, for ground, clearance, and tower. I didn't think it was unusual at all. And to go along with what everyone else has said, the onus is definitely on the pilot to make sure he's doing the right thing.
 
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