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Possible assignments out of cockpit following first operational tour

BarrettRC8

VMFA
pilot
... but every pilot at TBS when I was there was a Cobra guy and a huge amount of the Marine IPs in primary are C130 types. Is this for a reason, or just a fluke? If there is a difference in communities, uh, what do jet guys go do?

I think it is just your personal experience. Either that or mine was a fluke. TBS seemed to be equally diverse amongst platforms from what I saw. And while I was in VT-6 this time last year, we had five jet guys, three C-130 guys, and a handful of helo guys, one of which flew Cobras.
 

Lord Doog

New Member
Don't know if this question belongs here, but seems the closest to what I wanna ask: when you're on a B-billet, are you still obligated to fly regularly to remain current on your airframe?
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Nope. If you're gone long enough, you'll go to the FRS for a refresher course.
 

HueyHornet75

Registered User
pilot
wow, this is great. i haven't been on this site for years, and it's funny how all the threads resurrect...all the ones i remember are long, since closed, but it's nice to revisit-it does bring back old memories-my I've changed over those 8 years! The original question is a good one. I don't know if this will help TwosBlind, but for anyone new to the site, the issue isn't about your b-billet. It's about what you did during your first tour. MOS credibility during your first tour is mighty essential and will pave the way or hurt you down the line. As I re-read old threads and random posts, I seemed to miss that somewhere along the way. Perhaps it was hidden in other threads that I didn't bother to search out for the newbies. As a first tour guy, concentrate on being the best co-pilot, the best ready-room O, the best SJO there is. Shut up, listen and learn. Strive to be the instructor with all the quals. If you are a flight hour guy, it will lead to flight time. If you want to be a well-rounded officer, it will lead you there by sending you to WTI or SWTI or Top Gun, whatever is in vogue. Once you've reached the pinnacle of your Company Grade/JO tour, you can almost write your ticket. Yes, certain jobs are still frowned upon (Flight School, SAR, SEP). But what about those other jobs? General Rocco once told a group of MAG-39 Officers that your job is a pilot. Be the best pilot you can be. Establish MOS credibility at every rank. His words: "I did not do a ground tour, you don't need to do a ground tour. Do every job to the best of your ability". Politics plays a large part of it, don't kid yourself. Some guys get bad deals, some guys get good deals-in either case, it may not have been deserved. The needs of the Marine Corps will always trump your intentions (unless, of course, they marry up.) I volunteered for a deploying FAC tour to Afghanistan and was told no! By the MAG, by the monitor, by everyone. Perhaps I'm a $hitbird-I'd like to think not...but getting all the quals, rocking flight time, being the go-to-guy, and doing everything "right" caused me to be needed elsewhere-in the cockpit!! What are you gonna do? I was bummed. Other jobs that aren't discussed too much include Operational Test Squadrons (VX), Developmental Test Squadrons (HX-TPS grad), the flying OSO unicorn, and something I do called DCMA. Defense Contract Management Agency oversees contracts at Defense Contractors that build aircraft. The personnel assigned work with the contractor pilots, manufacturers and production personnel and they test, accept and buy the aircraft for the USG and their respective services. Although still upset that I didn't do my ground tour to the 'stan, my wife and kids enjoy that I'm home. The idea is that your first B-billet is supposed to be a gimmee...i don't know about all that, but what I do know is that it can't be too short that you come back still a Captain, or a booty boot Major. You have to time it out so that you are a mid-grade Major so you can do your department head tour, get your quals back and all that other stuff. After that, your b-billet(s) will be almost chosen for you by the powers that are looking out for you. If you are "part of the club", you'll get hooked up to more career enhancing billets-that doesn't always translate to a good time. For the rest, you are at the mercy of the monitors, the IA pool and staff hell, I imagine. So, work hard in your first tour, make a positive name for yourself, and have fun with the B-billet you get-do it better than anyone and you'll be just fine. good luck.
 

andrew90

New Member
wow, this is great. i haven't been on this site for years, and it's funny how all the threads resurrect...all the ones i remember are long, since closed, but it's nice to revisit-it does bring back old memories-my I've changed over those 8 years! The original question is a good one. I don't know if this will help TwosBlind, but for anyone new to the site, the issue isn't about your b-billet. It's about what you did during your first tour. MOS credibility during your first tour is mighty essential and will pave the way or hurt you down the line. As I re-read old threads and random posts, I seemed to miss that somewhere along the way. Perhaps it was hidden in other threads that I didn't bother to search out for the newbies. As a first tour guy, concentrate on being the best co-pilot, the best ready-room O, the best SJO there is. Shut up, listen and learn. Strive to be the instructor with all the quals. If you are a flight hour guy, it will lead to flight time. If you want to be a well-rounded officer, it will lead you there by sending you to WTI or SWTI or Top Gun, whatever is in vogue. Once you've reached the pinnacle of your Company Grade/JO tour, you can almost write your ticket. Yes, certain jobs are still frowned upon (Flight School, SAR, SEP). But what about those other jobs? General Rocco once told a group of MAG-39 Officers that your job is a pilot. Be the best pilot you can be. Establish MOS credibility at every rank. His words: "I did not do a ground tour, you don't need to do a ground tour. Do every job to the best of your ability". Politics plays a large part of it, don't kid yourself. Some guys get bad deals, some guys get good deals-in either case, it may not have been deserved. The needs of the Marine Corps will always trump your intentions (unless, of course, they marry up.) I volunteered for a deploying FAC tour to Afghanistan and was told no! By the MAG, by the monitor, by everyone. Perhaps I'm a $hitbird-I'd like to think not...but getting all the quals, rocking flight time, being the go-to-guy, and doing everything "right" caused me to be needed elsewhere-in the cockpit!! What are you gonna do? I was bummed. Other jobs that aren't discussed too much include Operational Test Squadrons (VX), Developmental Test Squadrons (HX-TPS grad), the flying OSO unicorn, and something I do called DCMA. Defense Contract Management Agency oversees contracts at Defense Contractors that build aircraft. The personnel assigned work with the contractor pilots, manufacturers and production personnel and they test, accept and buy the aircraft for the USG and their respective services. Although still upset that I didn't do my ground tour to the 'stan, my wife and kids enjoy that I'm home. The idea is that your first B-billet is supposed to be a gimmee...i don't know about all that, but what I do know is that it can't be too short that you come back still a Captain, or a booty boot Major. You have to time it out so that you are a mid-grade Major so you can do your department head tour, get your quals back and all that other stuff. After that, your b-billet(s) will be almost chosen for you by the powers that are looking out for you. If you are "part of the club", you'll get hooked up to more career enhancing billets-that doesn't always translate to a good time. For the rest, you are at the mercy of the monitors, the IA pool and staff hell, I imagine. So, work hard in your first tour, make a positive name for yourself, and have fun with the B-billet you get-do it better than anyone and you'll be just fine. good luck.
HueyHornet75,

Your post means very much to me. I was recently selected for OCC 224 in January as an air contract. What you said opened my eyes.
 

Criminal

God's personal hacky sack
pilot
wow, this is great. i haven't been on this site for years, and it's funny how all the threads resurrect...all the ones i remember are long, since closed, but it's nice to revisit-it does bring back old memories-my I've changed over those 8 years! The original question is a good one. I don't know if this will help TwosBlind, but for anyone new to the site, the issue isn't about your b-billet. It's about what you did during your first tour. MOS credibility during your first tour is mighty essential and will pave the way or hurt you down the line. As I re-read old threads and random posts, I seemed to miss that somewhere along the way. Perhaps it was hidden in other threads that I didn't bother to search out for the newbies. As a first tour guy, concentrate on being the best co-pilot, the best ready-room O, the best SJO there is. Shut up, listen and learn. Strive to be the instructor with all the quals. If you are a flight hour guy, it will lead to flight time. If you want to be a well-rounded officer, it will lead you there by sending you to WTI or SWTI or Top Gun, whatever is in vogue. Once you've reached the pinnacle of your Company Grade/JO tour, you can almost write your ticket. Yes, certain jobs are still frowned upon (Flight School, SAR, SEP). But what about those other jobs? General Rocco once told a group of MAG-39 Officers that your job is a pilot. Be the best pilot you can be. Establish MOS credibility at every rank. His words: "I did not do a ground tour, you don't need to do a ground tour. Do every job to the best of your ability". Politics plays a large part of it, don't kid yourself. Some guys get bad deals, some guys get good deals-in either case, it may not have been deserved. The needs of the Marine Corps will always trump your intentions (unless, of course, they marry up.) I volunteered for a deploying FAC tour to Afghanistan and was told no! By the MAG, by the monitor, by everyone. Perhaps I'm a $hitbird-I'd like to think not...but getting all the quals, rocking flight time, being the go-to-guy, and doing everything "right" caused me to be needed elsewhere-in the cockpit!! What are you gonna do? I was bummed. Other jobs that aren't discussed too much include Operational Test Squadrons (VX), Developmental Test Squadrons (HX-TPS grad), the flying OSO unicorn, and something I do called DCMA. Defense Contract Management Agency oversees contracts at Defense Contractors that build aircraft. The personnel assigned work with the contractor pilots, manufacturers and production personnel and they test, accept and buy the aircraft for the USG and their respective services. Although still upset that I didn't do my ground tour to the 'stan, my wife and kids enjoy that I'm home. The idea is that your first B-billet is supposed to be a gimmee...i don't know about all that, but what I do know is that it can't be too short that you come back still a Captain, or a booty boot Major. You have to time it out so that you are a mid-grade Major so you can do your department head tour, get your quals back and all that other stuff. After that, your b-billet(s) will be almost chosen for you by the powers that are looking out for you. If you are "part of the club", you'll get hooked up to more career enhancing billets-that doesn't always translate to a good time. For the rest, you are at the mercy of the monitors, the IA pool and staff hell, I imagine. So, work hard in your first tour, make a positive name for yourself, and have fun with the B-billet you get-do it better than anyone and you'll be just fine. good luck.

Yes, I am replying to a post made in 2011, with the last post on the thread in 2016. I have only rarely posted in the past. With that being said, the Marine specific portion of this site has nearly died. So my currently tipsy as@ sitting in a hot tub wants to try to change that.

Currently, you can expect a first tour to be 3-5 years depending on what you fly (and if you suck or are a worthless pile of whatever). I did a solid 3+ a little as a kj guy. I didn't request an extension, though the ones I know that did got it granted. Some of those were for good reason and othersfor cause they wanted. I think an extra year was standard.

For b billet. Fac and back is big across the board, even for herc guys. Volunteer for a 1 year or get assigned a 2 year and you go to a squadron (fleet or vt). There are a lot of places and different things to do, but it depends on what's available.

Last year I requested flight school for my b billet, got orders to tbs. I was horrified but didn't complain, even though that was a horrible decision by the corps. I'm just old, semi fat and had enough of that ground stuff... ended up someone fell out and I was picked to be the unicorn. My orders were changed and I was assigned to recruiting, as the (formerly known as flying oso) aaop.

So, there are 2 recruiting regions, east and west and under them 3 districts each. I'm assigned to one of those districts. Every district has a pilot assigned as the aaop=aviation assistant for officer procurement. I deal mainly with managing the mission, applications, waivers, and processing of every applicant that is submitted from the oso's (PLC & occ). I also travel to each oso once a semester to be a proof source and talk about the details of being a pilot in the Marines. I also have some flight simulators that I truck around.

So, I'm not the only one with a b billet. Let's hear your stories!
Revive the Marine section
 

QuanticoIsCold

New Member
A question that I haven't been able to get a clear yes/no answer on: Does resident EWS count as a full B billet? As in can I finish my first fleet tour, hopefully go to resident EWS and then go back to the fleet for a second tour? Or is the time not long enough?
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
A question that I haven't been able to get a clear yes/no answer on: Does resident EWS count as a full B billet? As in can I finish my first fleet tour, hopefully go to resident EWS and then go back to the fleet for a second tour? Or is the time not long enough?
People typically go back to a squadron if they couldn’t avoid resident EWS
 

whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
A question that I haven't been able to get a clear yes/no answer on: Does resident EWS count as a full B billet? As in can I finish my first fleet tour, hopefully go to resident EWS and then go back to the fleet for a second tour? Or is the time not long enough?

I don’t know if it counts as a b billet but yeah there are people who do fleet ews fleet. With the health of Marine aviation these days you can do fleet to fleet and not do a b billet or EWS.
 

Pakol

Learner's permit
pilot
Is a FAC tour considered a B-Billet, like you PCS for 1-2 years to your new assignment after TACP school and then PCS to a new assignment afterwards, or is it like an extended IA in the middle of your first fleet tour?
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Is a FAC tour considered a B-Billet, like you PCS for 1-2 years to your new assignment after TACP school and then PCS to a new assignment afterwards, or is it like an extended IA in the middle of your first fleet tour?
It’s a PCS. Unless you don’t need/rate a PCS, like Miramar/Pendleton guys going to a Pendleton FAC billet. In some cases guys even keep flying while a FAC.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
It’s a PCS. Unless you don’t need/rate a PCS, like Miramar/Pendleton guys going to a Pendleton FAC billet. In some cases guys even keep flying while a FAC.

YMMV, but in my experience most FAC tours didn't come with PCS orders. FAC tours are accessed locally to the MAW and down to the MAGs with some accompanying guidance (e.g. don't give more than 2 to V-22 guys, because they're more undermanned). Absent drug deals and horse trading, they'll try to keep you in the general area if possible...I.e. SoCal or NC. Guys coming out of Yuma or Beaufort or into 29 Palms might score a PCS combo platter with something else on the front or back.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
A question that I haven't been able to get a clear yes/no answer on: Does resident EWS count as a full B billet? As in can I finish my first fleet tour, hopefully go to resident EWS and then go back to the fleet for a second tour? Or is the time not long enough?

No, it's not really a B-billet. It's generally going to be better for you and the monitor to get orders to a real B-billet before returning to the fleet.

"B-billet" for officers is a somewhat nebulous term. For enlisted, it's explicitly, DI, MSG, Security Forces, MCT Instructor, and recruiter (apologies if I missed one). For officers, it's kind of "anything not your primary MOS." That said, you're supposed to alternate with something broadening and that gets you a reasonable amount of time (>1 year) with observed fitreps.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
YMMV, but in my experience most FAC tours didn't come with PCS orders. FAC tours are accessed locally to the MAW and down to the MAGs with some accompanying guidance (e.g. don't give more than 2 to V-22 guys, because they're more undermanned). Absent drug deals and horse trading, they'll try to keep you in the general area if possible...I.e. SoCal or NC. Guys coming out of Yuma or Beaufort or into 29 Palms might score a PCS combo platter with something else on the front or back.
Yeah, like I said the close ones aren’t a PCS but Yuma to Pendleton was. Pretty much anything other than Cherry Point/New River to Lejeune or Miramar/Pendleton to Pendleton is though. Unless it’s changed, of course.
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
Yeah, like I said the close ones aren’t a PCS but Yuma to Pendleton was. Pretty much anything other than Cherry Point/New River to Lejeune or Miramar/Pendleton to Pendleton is though. Unless it’s changed, of course.

No change. All FAC tours from MAG-14 are PCAs to Lejeune - unless someone scores a Hawaii gig- but those seem to be rare.
 
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