The Military Channel did a show on AR. They showed the initial attempts after WWII. The tanker would trail a lanyard, which the receiver would snag, then use to winch the hose to the recepticle. I've got to find a video of that.
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Probe-and-Drogue vs. Boom
- Thread starter raptor10
- Start date
phrogdriver said:
Anyone see the documentary on The Military Channel about the Badger(Tu-160?) and how it did IFR? That was one weird set up. They had the refueling plane snake out a large, rigid hose out of the wing and then curved it around so it faced forwards. Then the refueling plane would then insert the probe into the receiving point on the tip of the needy aircraft. Those wacky Russians.
Flash said:Really? I would love to hear the details.......:icon_smil
When my reserve squadron was disestablished I took up expeditionary air and amphibious warfare. During a class at Amphibious Warfare School (unclass) we studied the Falklands War in some detail. I seem to remember we had refueled some Vulcans for a raid early in the war. The Vuclans launched from Ascension Island for the 6000+ mile round trip. The US had stared out neutral on the war since we thought the Argie dictator was good for the anti communist effort in South and Central America. We hoped to broker a deal and not have to take sides. Eventually the US abandoned that position, but any actual material support for the Brits was not made public because it was thought it would enrage other South American countries. The US very publicly refused to loan AWACS to the Brits. That decision led to the successful aerial attacks on the invasion fleet by the very brave and capable Argie pilots and an AEW helo for the RN. All that said, and my memory aside, I can't find any reference to the US refueling Vulcans during the Falklands War. So, is the old guy's memory failing him, or is it still too "hush hush" to have found a place in history?
For those that dont know Vulcan= that high sub-sonic bomber from Thunderball
Vulcan 1
Vulcan 2
Vulcan Info
Vulcan 1
Vulcan 2
Vulcan Info
wink said:
If I remember correctly, it was the Victor's that refuelled the Vulcan's on thier way to strike the Falklands. I have several books about the Falklands War and I remember distinctly that 'Sharkey' Ward, the CO of the Sea Harrier squadron on the HMS Invincible, complained in his book Sea Harrier Over the Falklands about how much gas the Victors offloaded for a single Vulcan strike.
Picture of a Victor: http://www.aeroplaneart.com.au/Images/JSJ_PC_Handley_Page_Victor_K_Mk_2.jpg
A long quote from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_refueling For the British side, Aerial refueling was carried out almost exclusively by the Handley Page Victor. These aircraft aided deployments from the UK to the Ascension Island staging post in the South Atlantic, and further deployments south of attack, transport, and maritime patrol aircraft. The most famous refueling missions were the "Operation Black Buck" sorties which involved Victor tankers refueling Avro Vulcan bombers to attack the Argentine-captured airbase at Port Stanley on the Falkland Islands. Despite only one direct hit, the raids were the longest ranged bombing raids in history until surpassed by the B-2 Spirit in the 1991 Gulf War. The Victor tankers were shortly afterwards retired from service, and they were replaced for RAF service by Lockheed L-1011 transports which were bought economically on the second-hand airliner market.
The most visible, and at that time public, support the US gave the British was the promise to replenish the AIM-9L Sidewinders the Brits took out of NATO stocks to equip their Harriers in the Task Force.
And some redirected satellite intel as well ... believe it.Flash said:
The refueling?? Victors. That's correct, Flash ... The BEST treatise I've seen as an after-action report was done by a ..... MARINE
. I'll see if I can find it -- very detailed on the "Black Buck" operations .... bottom line: The Brits had a helluva time plugging. Not too much opporunity to practice with the Euro-Centric go get the Soviets training. And we DID provide them with state of the art AIM-9's.Boy, we're gonna' have to have tea pretty soon if we keep agreeing with one another. Naaaaaaaa ..... that ain't gonna' happen. I'd smoke cigars and fart ... :icon_rast
And I didn't mean to call you ... Boy.
A4sForever said:And some redirected satellite intel as well ... believe it.
The refueling?? Victors. That's correct, Flash ... The BEST treatise I've seen as an after-action report was done by a ..... MARINE
Boy, we're gonna' have to have tea pretty soon if we keep agreeing with one another. Naaaaaaaa ..... that ain't gonna' happen. I'd smoke cigars and fart ... :icon_rast
And I didn't mean to call you ... Boy.
I didn't say that the missiles were all that we gave the Brits, just the most visible......It helped reinforce our 'special relationship' with them for a while. The only other country to come out in such supprot of the Brits, at least publicly at the time, was New Zealand!!
As for aggreeing with you, I must be getting old and crotchety like you.......:icon_smil
Yeah, but I didn't say that you didn't say that I didn't say that you didn't say that I didn't say ... *breathless* ... Oh, what the hell. You just blew it with the "let's do lunch", Flash-Man .... you missed an easy opportunity to scam some of that airline 4-Stripe $$$$ for lunch.Flash said:
AIM-9's .... Missiles? We should have given them to the Brits ... the only ones we can count on are the Brits and Aussies ....
BUT .... we were playing both sides of the street back then --- classic Reagan era politics
--- and just a few years prior to giving the Brits state-of-the-art AIM-9's to shore up their pathetic Fleet Air and bag some Gauchos ... I was training some of the Argentine A-4 drivers !!!!! You know, the same boys who would go head-to-head against the 'Winders we gave 'em ..... Those Argentine A-4 pilots. Quick learners ... good boys .... good sticks .... hard dicks .... I'd go into combat with them. Several of them didn't make it.
RIP and Saludo Amigos ....
Flash said:
While we are picking on minute details.... The B-2 didn't participate in the Gulf war... the first B-2 was delivered to Whiteman AFB in December of 1993.
I dunno about that ... maybe part of the plan, maybe not .... but I DO know probes and drogues for the USN had a lot to do with A/C weight and carrier operations.JetJunkie said:
"Boom" aircraft need not apply aboard ship .... unless, of course, it's the "BOOMERS", a.k.a. VA-165
"The U.S. Air Force operated for many years using both the flying boom and probe and drogue systems. It finally phased out the latter in favor of the boom, which could operate at significantly higher speeds and deliver fuel much faster.
"The Navy preferred the probe and drogue system, which could be mounted on smaller carrier-based aircraft. Navy engineers also developed a "buddy stores" system. This consisted of a fuel tank with a hose and drogue and enabled one aircraft to refuel an identical aircraft and did not require dedicated tanker aircraft."
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Evolution_of_Technology/refueling/Tech22.htm
"The Navy preferred the probe and drogue system, which could be mounted on smaller carrier-based aircraft. Navy engineers also developed a "buddy stores" system. This consisted of a fuel tank with a hose and drogue and enabled one aircraft to refuel an identical aircraft and did not require dedicated tanker aircraft."
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Evolution_of_Technology/refueling/Tech22.htm