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[Recovering LSO]

Has the Naval Academy Gotten Soft?

A recent Naval Institute Blog post by a classmate of mine suggested the Naval Academy get rid of formal parades in order to become a 21st-century institution. Whether or not I agree with him, I was surprised by the hateful comments he received from older Naval Academy graduates and other retired...

blog.usni.org

Knocked it out of the park.

 

[robav8r]

Has the Naval Academy Gotten Soft?

A recent Naval Institute Blog post by a classmate of mine suggested the Naval Academy get rid of formal parades in order to become a 21st-century institution. Whether or not I agree with him, I was surprised by the hateful comments he received from older Naval Academy graduates and other retired...

blog.usni.org

Knocked it out of the park.

"Recently, I listened to Vice Admiral Walter E. Carter, the Superintendent of the Naval Academy, speak about his experiences on the Proceedings Podcast. Talking about today’s midshipmen, he said the millennial/Gen Z generations are the best midshipmen the Academy has ever seen. He told his own class, the great class of 1981, that only a select few of them would even be accepted to today’s Academy, which speaks volumes about the competitiveness and quality of young men and women applying to the Academy.

VADM Carter's comments are not surprising, given his role (now VADM Buck) in recruiting and developing the next generation of Naval Leadership. Every generation finds a way to step up, and overcome the obstacle of the day. I know you have expressed a certain level of disappointment in the Baby Boomer generation and their contributions to the socio-economic mess our country finds itself in these days. But not everything the "old curmudgeons" sacrificed and dedicated their adult lives to is necessarily out of date. We have lots to learn from one another, past present and future.

 

[Jim123]

Every generation finds a way to step up, and overcome the obstacle of the day.

Todays mids and kids are the children of the helicopter parent generation- the parents who gave out participation ribbons, make the school buses stop every four or five houses so their kids won't have too far to walk, bike helmets/elbow pads/knee pads for everyone...

The generation who became parents during the 1920s partied too much (Roaring Twenties), over extended themselves financially, and helped cause the Great Depression- but their kids grew up and became the Greatest Generation.

Stereotypes? Heh. But there's hope for the kids these days.

But not everything the "old curmudgeons" sacrificed and dedicated their adult lives to is necessarily out of date. We have lots to learn from one another, past present and future.

Yup!

 

[Recovering LSO]

But not everything the "old curmudgeons" sacrificed and dedicated their adult lives to is necessarily out of date.

Pretty sure that’s not at all what the author implied in his article.

 

[Griz882]

The more "curmudgeon" I become I come to the question if it simply isn't time to shutter all the four-year military academies and maybe even ROTC and OCS. Maybe turn them all into a kind of one year pre-commissioning program like RMA Sandhurst where they come with a civilian education education in hand, get a military education, and then head out to the appropriate training center. Save loads of money - I think the idea comes up about once every three or four years.

Anyway, never went to an academy. Have know great graduates and some real duds, but I would be equally fine if they stayed open - the advantage of being a curmudgeon.

 

[BarryD]

The Academy "getting soft" . . . no different than the ones who say they were the last to go through a "real Plebe Summer" . . . or were the "last class to be issued slide-rules" or had the hardest (insert Academyism) here.

I'm no expert on the Academy, but from people I've talked to . . . it still is "a bad place to be (and a great place to be from)".

Agree with the author; obviously I'm somewhat biased.

 

[Gatordev]

I always thought the parade thing (or the constant practicing for them) at the Academy was weird. Especially when a large number of students didn't actually participate in practicing for them (Varsity athletes). I get it looks impressive to the tourists and locals, but beyond that...meh.

 

[nittany03]

Annapolis: turning 18-year-olds with the maturity level of 23-year-olds into 23-year-olds with the maturity level of 18-year-olds since 1844.

I think one could make an argument for turning the place into a British-style one-or two-year finishing school for aspiring commissioned officers with a bachelors degree. I don’t think that’s necessary, but one could argue for it.

I’m definitely not sure what cooping up the Academy mids, especially junior ones, like they do gets the Navy. Aside from alums arguing over whose life sucked worse. Seems a whole bunch of young Ensigns do just fine after four years of NROTC at a real college campus. And within about two years in the Fleet, no one knows the difference anyway.

On the flipside, it’s interesting that the Academy has done Plebe Summer since Moby Dick was a sardine, and now I hear NETC is apparently consolidating summer indoc for NROTC 4/c Mids at Great Mistakes.

 

[BarryD]

On the flipside, it’s interesting that the Academy has done Plebe Summer since Moby Dick was a sardine, and now I hear NETC is apparently consolidating summer indoc for NROTC 4/c Mids at Great Mistakes.

The old NSTC Admiral wanted to institute New Student Indoc (NSI) and Sea Trials. NSI being the 3-week program (2 cycles) at Great Lakes and Sea Trials being a 2/C Cruise required for commissioning at either Newport, Jax or somewhere in the PNW. Sea Trials is currently not required this year because about half of them got cancelled due to budget cuts.

In addition to NSI, some schools are doing their own NSO.

Where funding for NSTC currently stands, nobody (or at least I don't) knows where either of these programs will be in 1-2 years, and NSTC just had their change of command.

 

[SethB]

The more "curmudgeon" I become I come to the question if it simply isn't time to shutter all the four-year military academies and maybe even ROTC and OCS. Maybe turn them all into a kind of one year pre-commissioning program like RMA Sandhurst where they come with a civilian education education in hand, get a military education, and then head out to the appropriate training center. Save loads of money - I think the idea comes up about once every three or four years.

Anyway, never went to an academy. Have know great graduates and some real duds, but I would be equally fine if they stayed open - the advantage of being a curmudgeon.

From the Army side, I've been a fan of this for years. The Army has three major components, Regular Army, Army Reserve and Army National Guard. Between them we have one USMA, one Federal OCS, one accelerated OCS in Alabama, State RTIs (OCS) that run National Guard candidates, and 273 ROTC programs. That's something like 330 ways to earn a commission.

As you can imagine, consistency is not an output of this system.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Annapolis: turning 18-year-olds with the maturity level of 23-year-olds into 23-year-olds with the maturity level of 18-year-olds since 1844.

LOL

I’m definitely not sure what cooping up the Academy mids, especially junior ones, like they do gets the Navy. Aside from alums arguing over whose life sucked worse. Seems a whole bunch of young Ensigns do just fine after four years of NROTC at a real college campus. And within about two years in the Fleet, no one knows the difference anyway.

True. I know a West Point alum who got kicked out of the Army as a 2LT because he did dumb stuff (college/frat-style) as soon he got let out of West Point. When you show up at the base gate for Monday formation and the bed of your pickup truck has an equal number of empty beer cans and Army-issue M4s, you probably needed some more growing up before becoming an Army officer. Apparently they didn’t get many chances to let off steam at West Point and go be a kid/ drink/ party/ chase people of the opposite attraction, so this guy went 100mph as soon as he graduated/ commissioned.

I think one could make an argument for turning the place into a British-style one-or two-year finishing school for aspiring commissioned officers with a bachelors degree. I don’t think that’s necessary, but one could argue for it.

Isn’t that what OCS/ODS is for?

I hear NETC is apparently consolidating summer indoc for NROTC 4/c Mids at Great Mistakes.

Confirmed. Navy put photos of MIDN @ Great Lakes on their official instagram account.

 

[BarryD]

LOL

True. I know a West Point alum who got kicked out of the Army as a 2LT because he did dumb stuff (college/frat-style) as soon he got let out of West Point. When you show up at the base gate for Monday formation and the bed of your pickup truck has an equal number of empty beer cans and Army-issue M4s, you probably needed some more growing up before becoming an Army officer. Apparently they didn’t get many chances to let off steam at West Point and go be a kid/ drink/ party/ chase people of the opposite attraction, so this guy went 100mph as soon as he graduated/ commissioned.

Isn’t that what OCS/ODS is for?

Confirmed. Navy put photos of MIDN @ Great Lakes on their official instagram account.

Par for the course for some academy grads. It’s definitely one of the negative stereotypes surrounding the community (not always true).

The first session of NSI just wrapped up at GL, the second session is in week 1.

And you follow NETC & NSTC on IG? Impressive.

 

[Hair Warrior]

And you follow NETC & NSTC on IG?

No, just @ usnavy

 

[Flash]

I always thought the parade thing (or the constant practicing for them) at the Academy was weird. Especially when a large number of students didn't actually participate in practicing for them (Varsity athletes). I get it looks impressive to the tourists and locals, but beyond that...meh.

We did it at my school too, every Friday for us with a few exceptions along with practice parades on Tuesdays or Thursdays most weeks. Part of the reason we did it is that we apparently got money for the city to do it, it was a big tourist draw especially in the spring, and the other reason was always given as maintaining a semblance of military discipline and order.

For the academy kids it is a small price to pay to going to school for free, suck it up.

 

[Recovering LSO]

This may have been shared here before, if so, my bad. This is one of VADM Stockdale's more famous pieces of writing. You'll find it linked or referenced in any number of military/navy leadership/philosophy courses. I have a copy in a binder I keep of save-worthy reads.

http://media.hoover.org/sites/default/files/documents/978-0-8179-3692-1_1.pdf