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Proof That Gun Control and Gun Bans Work
- Thread starter Fly Navy
- Start date
Flash said:
This argument, although possessing a good face value, is entirely fallacitical, and in my opinion, is the weak trunk of liberal pro gun control/abolishment reasoning.
As countless people have said, criminals by nature and definition, do not obey laws. How would you expect them to obey a gun law? Prove that criminals will obide by gun laws, and you may have won 1/3 the battle.
Then of course you'll have to figure out how to overthrow a corrupt government without firearms. That might be a tricky one.
Godspeed said:
Wow .... these "Pork-Chops" and their lingo .... I am in awe. I googled the whole universe on that one 'cause I was clueless, but alas, to no avail ..... it did suggest: phamaceutical ..... ???
But hey, if we can't laugh at and "phamaceutical" ourselves, well then --- who can ???
'ing lamp is still lit ..... smoke 'em if you got 'em .....
ChuckMK23 said:
Actually .... something more like this:
Godspeed, the term you are looking for is "fallacious."
*Ahem* .... Amen.
nittany03 said:
Ah yes, that was the one. I have been known to interject words in to my speech from one of my many fluent foreign languages.
"Fallacitical," being a word spoken by an African tribe with French and Portuguese roots (which is resultantly a tri-bred language), means, "obsurd" in English.
Pardon this error, it shaln't happen again.
Later, City Boy
Is that suppose to be insult? Plus, I live in the 'burbs, not quite a city boy.
Talk to the folks down in Australia - just a small survey of crimes committed (official Australian statistics):
1996: Homicide - 350, Assault - 114,156, sexual assault 14,542, robbery - 16,372
2003: Homicide - 341, Assault - 158,629, sexual assault 18,237, robbery - 19,719
They essentially gave up their guns under new, stringent gun laws in 1997. It would appear that fewer criminals are fearful as they were before. But hey - that's okay as long as there are fewer guns in citizens' hands, right?
For instance, there are more "inner cities" here than Australia or U.K. If you compare murder rates in towns that are very similar to each other from US and AUS then you will find the stats are comparable.
That may have been a good argument if that facts did not get in the way. Prince George's County in Maryland, where I grew up and one of the most violent places in the country, has a population of 842,967 (2005 est) and 148 homicides in 2004, the vast majority by gun. In comparison, in 1995 67 Australians died from homicides-by-firearm (the latest year I could find statisics). Australia had a population of 20,090,437 (July 2005 est).
This is a quote from the linked article. If you think the banning of guns in Australia was the only factor, or even a major factor in the slight rise in the crime rate then think again:
Across the country, homicide rates have fallen substantially since the late 1980s, when crack cocaine's emergence sparked bloody street feuds. Outside experts and civic leaders said police are only one factor in deterring crime. The homicide decrease also appears to be driven by a stronger economy, the waning of the crack wars and the growing number of young men in prison, they said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39858-2004Dec31.html
When the “Stalin” of the USS of Amerika rises to power, and one eventually will, I want him to have to try and find me, not simply look me up on the license list.
Then of course you'll have to figure out how to overthrow a corrupt government without firearms. That might be a tricky one.
I think you guys have been watching a little too much Red Dawn or Amerika (a really dumb miniseries with Kris Kristofferson, the commies took over http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092316/).
I agree that most forms of 'gun control' don't work in this country. Guns are too prevalant here. Why don't they go after these guys instead?
The majority (57.4 percent) of firearms traced by law enforcement to gun dealers active in 1998 were sold by 1,020 (1.2 percent) of the 83,272 licensed retail dealers and pawnbrokers. Each of these dealers and pawnbrokers had 10 or more crime guns traced back to them, and 132 of these dealers had 50 or more crime guns traced.
http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/ls373.htm
Is that suppose to be insult? Plus, I live in the 'burbs, not quite a city boy.
Talk to the folks down in Australia - just a small survey of crimes committed (official Australian statistics):
1996: Homicide - 350, Assault - 114,156, sexual assault 14,542, robbery - 16,372
2003: Homicide - 341, Assault - 158,629, sexual assault 18,237, robbery - 19,719
They essentially gave up their guns under new, stringent gun laws in 1997. It would appear that fewer criminals are fearful as they were before. But hey - that's okay as long as there are fewer guns in citizens' hands, right?
For instance, there are more "inner cities" here than Australia or U.K. If you compare murder rates in towns that are very similar to each other from US and AUS then you will find the stats are comparable.
That may have been a good argument if that facts did not get in the way. Prince George's County in Maryland, where I grew up and one of the most violent places in the country, has a population of 842,967 (2005 est) and 148 homicides in 2004, the vast majority by gun. In comparison, in 1995 67 Australians died from homicides-by-firearm (the latest year I could find statisics). Australia had a population of 20,090,437 (July 2005 est).
This is a quote from the linked article. If you think the banning of guns in Australia was the only factor, or even a major factor in the slight rise in the crime rate then think again:
Across the country, homicide rates have fallen substantially since the late 1980s, when crack cocaine's emergence sparked bloody street feuds. Outside experts and civic leaders said police are only one factor in deterring crime. The homicide decrease also appears to be driven by a stronger economy, the waning of the crack wars and the growing number of young men in prison, they said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39858-2004Dec31.html
When the “Stalin” of the USS of Amerika rises to power, and one eventually will, I want him to have to try and find me, not simply look me up on the license list.
Then of course you'll have to figure out how to overthrow a corrupt government without firearms. That might be a tricky one.
I think you guys have been watching a little too much Red Dawn or Amerika (a really dumb miniseries with Kris Kristofferson, the commies took over http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092316/).
I agree that most forms of 'gun control' don't work in this country. Guns are too prevalant here. Why don't they go after these guys instead?
The majority (57.4 percent) of firearms traced by law enforcement to gun dealers active in 1998 were sold by 1,020 (1.2 percent) of the 83,272 licensed retail dealers and pawnbrokers. Each of these dealers and pawnbrokers had 10 or more crime guns traced back to them, and 132 of these dealers had 50 or more crime guns traced.
http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/ls373.htm
TurbosaurusRex
Air Predator Extraordinaire
When they rolled out the firearm collection of Randy Weaver on Ruby Ridge I almost pissed my pants. My collection is about 3 times that size, and here were the FBI and Mr. Janet Reno murdering his child and wife for it. I'm a memeber of the NRA and have been for several years. On these issues I will ALWAYS come out against the Liberal "can't we all just get along?," "do you really NEED that?," "you're scaring people" mentality. :sleep_125
We give cold facts: further legislating LEGAL firearms does not inhibit the criminal. This fact is proven and indisputable. It's arguable that it actually HELPS the criminal.
They come back with "emotional whining": but why do you need it? don't you know there are New Englanders who are really scared of you rednecks? Now, I know they're arguments are more mature and intellectual than this, but they have no basis in fact and no coherence.
I would like to side with Handjive on the licensing issue. I like the idea of every gun owner having a short, inexpensive safety class under his/her belt. However, once government gets their fingers into it, they can make what started out as a simple, inexpensive process, into an elitist red tape nightmare. Licensing, I believe, would only get us one step closer to a full ban on weapons.
It starts out as a simple option, then they make it mandatory for ownership, then they raise the prices and tax it to death, then they add new regulations and requirements. Suddenly, it's too much work and too much money to own a gun. Suddenly, we're criminals for owning a gun without a license.
It's a touchy subject... it seems like we could negotiate an agreement... We want our guns. They don't want us to own guns. But there is no negotiation there. We are FREE to own guns. They are also FREE to own guns. ANY negotiation limits their freedom as well as our own.
And we all know that Freedom should never be on the table for negotiation.
We give cold facts: further legislating LEGAL firearms does not inhibit the criminal. This fact is proven and indisputable. It's arguable that it actually HELPS the criminal.
They come back with "emotional whining": but why do you need it? don't you know there are New Englanders who are really scared of you rednecks? Now, I know they're arguments are more mature and intellectual than this, but they have no basis in fact and no coherence.
I would like to side with Handjive on the licensing issue. I like the idea of every gun owner having a short, inexpensive safety class under his/her belt. However, once government gets their fingers into it, they can make what started out as a simple, inexpensive process, into an elitist red tape nightmare. Licensing, I believe, would only get us one step closer to a full ban on weapons.
It starts out as a simple option, then they make it mandatory for ownership, then they raise the prices and tax it to death, then they add new regulations and requirements. Suddenly, it's too much work and too much money to own a gun. Suddenly, we're criminals for owning a gun without a license.
It's a touchy subject... it seems like we could negotiate an agreement... We want our guns. They don't want us to own guns. But there is no negotiation there. We are FREE to own guns. They are also FREE to own guns. ANY negotiation limits their freedom as well as our own.
And we all know that Freedom should never be on the table for negotiation.
America, Land of the Free...for now
You guys forgot to mention Waco, Texas. If the only thing the FBI wanted was to arrest David Koresh they could have done that any time for several months since they recorded his daily activity of going out each morning, by himself, and running several miles to town for exercise.
The BATF and FBI wanted to make an example of THIS GROUP so others would see the length they would go to in order to destroy anyone who dared to stand up to them. They demonstrated that we already have a strong, well entrenched government body that is ready to go after ALL gun owners in AMREIKA.
By the way, Flash, I am a very busy man and don't have time to watch TV and dumb miniseries with Kris Kristofferson. That is why I sold the thing over 10 years ago and use the news papers, online news, radio, and search engines to gather information about what is happening in our world and its' governments.
You guys forgot to mention Waco, Texas. If the only thing the FBI wanted was to arrest David Koresh they could have done that any time for several months since they recorded his daily activity of going out each morning, by himself, and running several miles to town for exercise.
The BATF and FBI wanted to make an example of THIS GROUP so others would see the length they would go to in order to destroy anyone who dared to stand up to them. They demonstrated that we already have a strong, well entrenched government body that is ready to go after ALL gun owners in AMREIKA.
By the way, Flash, I am a very busy man and don't have time to watch TV and dumb miniseries with Kris Kristofferson. That is why I sold the thing over 10 years ago and use the news papers, online news, radio, and search engines to gather information about what is happening in our world and its' governments.
Sub-moa said:
You've got some issues if you think that. Last time I checked, Federal Law Enforcement Officers serve our country just those in the military. Sure, we have all made fun of cops (just look at some of the guts the guys carry around in P'cola) but they put their lives on the line to defend this country like many of us on the board.
P.S. Learn to spell, it is America.
It's AMERICA, for now...
Is it “guts” or guns that they carry in P’cola?
We are still in AMERICA until the people who ran the attack on Ruby Ridge (Randy Weaver and family) and Waco (David Koresh and followers) decide it is time to invoke their power on all of us – then it will be The USS of AMERIKA. When that happens, none of us will be allowed to privately own guns.
I followed both of these attacks as they developed then followed their aftermaths. In both cases the “Rules of Engagement” that are usually hard line policy for all government police actions were radically changed. Specifically, the rule of, ‘only fire if directly fired at, and only fire at the one or ones firing at you’, was changed to ‘shoot to kill any armed person or group with arms’.
These facts came out from several sources during the investigations and various criminal and civil trials following the attacks.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/, http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/waco.massacre.html, http://www.benbest.com/history/waco.html, http://www.byington.org/Carl/ruby/ruby1.htm, http://www.stormfront.org/ruby.htm
A metacrawler or google search will give much more for you to dig through if you wish to know the facts.
As a direct result of the changed rules, people were murdered by those who wished to make an example of these people or wished to cover up the truth of what was going on.
If we were invaded by a foreign government, I too would be out there, in uniform, to fight them. With staunch patriotism, I support our military and police in this country. There are however, some within our government who wish to invoke Socialism and/or Fascism upon this country and will do so with the same methods that Stalin, Hitler, and Mao used to consolidate their power.
History has in the past, and will again in the future, repeat its self.
Flash said:
Is it “guts” or guns that they carry in P’cola?
We are still in AMERICA until the people who ran the attack on Ruby Ridge (Randy Weaver and family) and Waco (David Koresh and followers) decide it is time to invoke their power on all of us – then it will be The USS of AMERIKA. When that happens, none of us will be allowed to privately own guns.
I followed both of these attacks as they developed then followed their aftermaths. In both cases the “Rules of Engagement” that are usually hard line policy for all government police actions were radically changed. Specifically, the rule of, ‘only fire if directly fired at, and only fire at the one or ones firing at you’, was changed to ‘shoot to kill any armed person or group with arms’.
These facts came out from several sources during the investigations and various criminal and civil trials following the attacks.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/, http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/waco.massacre.html, http://www.benbest.com/history/waco.html, http://www.byington.org/Carl/ruby/ruby1.htm, http://www.stormfront.org/ruby.htm
A metacrawler or google search will give much more for you to dig through if you wish to know the facts.
As a direct result of the changed rules, people were murdered by those who wished to make an example of these people or wished to cover up the truth of what was going on.
If we were invaded by a foreign government, I too would be out there, in uniform, to fight them. With staunch patriotism, I support our military and police in this country. There are however, some within our government who wish to invoke Socialism and/or Fascism upon this country and will do so with the same methods that Stalin, Hitler, and Mao used to consolidate their power.
History has in the past, and will again in the future, repeat its self.