Godsp
We'll miss you Dink-Dink!
We'll miss you Dink-Dink!
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Prowler crashes in Eastern Washington, Aviators Feared Dead
- Thread starter xj220
- Start date
"WSMV: Tullahoma Navy pilot dies in plane crash"
http://m.wsmv.com/w/main/story/86940331/#
There will be a memorial for all three aviators who died in the crash on March 19 at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island in Oak Harbor, WA.
http://m.wsmv.com/w/main/story/86940331/#
There will be a memorial for all three aviators who died in the crash on March 19 at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island in Oak Harbor, WA.
It takes as long as it takes, and the results of the safety investigation don't get "released." When the time is right, your Safety Department will be able to brief on relevant details where lessons learned can be applied.
"More info" is usually the result of a FOIA request by someone somewhere down the line. The mishap board is most likely complete at this point, save for possibly some flag-level inputs, but the findings aren't generally released to the public. Hell, even being in Naval Aviation it can be a pain to get copies of the SIR, because "that's privileged." I'm not going to dive into the rabbit hole that is the "privileged" silliness here though.
Initial report said low level training. Going fast and low doesn't leave much time for error correction in certain regimes. Hitting the ground usually impedes the ability to eject.
Sometimes only of you are in a community related to the mishap.
I recently requested, through the FOIA process, both the MIR and the JAGMAN Investigation results for a 1978 F-14 mishap in which I was one of the two "happy campers" who were the object of the exercise. To their credit, both organizations (NAVSAFECEN and NAVJAG) took the time to call me on the telephone and we chatted at length. Sadly, even my own statements and recollections of events would have to be "redacted" from whatever either sent me…so it turned out to be a dry hole.
While I was personally "frustrated" (I just really wanted to read all the eye-witness reports from folks who were on the flight deck and saw the unscheduled "air show"), I regained an appreciation of the efforts the Navy goes to to protect "privileged information".
As Squeeze already mentioned and has been discussed on this board before I think the Navy takes the whole 'privileged information' thing with mishaps a bit too far. Pretty sad I was able to sit in a Brit O Club reading mishap investigation results for a variety of aircraft in plain English (the Queen's English of course....) and actually learn a few things over a pint instead of having to repeatedly ask our Safety O to get stuff on my own aircraft in the Navy, and only then after wading through all the jargon and wonderful formatting.
Could it be that some of you guys are asking the wrong questions of the wrong people? Dunno. There are several good people at both NAVSAFCEN as well as CNAF that will do a lot to help you get a report if you can explain to them the legitimate reason for your request. The litigious nature of our society rightly gives many reason for pause when handling these reports.
I've asked for several fairly "high vis" SIRs and have never been told no.
PM if you are interested in some POCs.
YMMV.
I've asked for several fairly "high vis" SIRs and have never been told no.
PM if you are interested in some POCs.
YMMV.
Very interesting response, especially for something that happened so long ago and an out of service platform.
In contrast, there's an O-6 on SB that's had great success with a collection of FOIA report postings, including most recently the loss of USS GUARDIAN. The only ones he couldn't get (like GUARDIAN's earlier) were because there was active/pending litigation.
magnetfreezer
Well-Known Member
Question from the AF side... we have AFSAS: http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123306955 which only safety personnel have access to (to enforce privilege) but they can pull any report to share w/those authorized privilege. Does the Navy formally "compartmentalize" the SIRs or is it just an issue of them not being available centrally?
There's lots of discussion about "privilege" and "keeping things out of the court," at the end of the day, the SIR is hard to get your hands on because of the system in place. Supposedly the system that mishaps are inputted into (along with our non-privileged HAZREPS) will be made easier to access very "soon" and you can query things easier. Judging by how they've updated the system to date, I think "easier" means it will have even more web scripting and fancy web 2.0 interfaces that struggle to run on NMCI and it's antiquated IE.
We have a safety system where we put in both our HAZREPS and Mishaps (like Gatordev said) and you can be granted access by your squadron's safety authority. I get all the applicable HAZREPS emailed directly to me and any SIRs that I'm on the distro list for. When we write these, we determine which people they go to (ie All Orion Activities, etc) and sometimes they can go to everyone. Just depends on who will benefit from it.
I will say that all the hazreps/SIR's that I get pumped to my NMCI account through the safety center site are Hornet or at least tacair specific. That being said, I have also been getting a lot of notifications about random MV-22 and USMC helo events. Not sure why, I just assumed that they were incorrectly routed to the wrong folks, or at least in excess of what would normally be included.
The fact that you have to ask about specific reports in order to receive them shows an inherent flaw in the system. Just because I'm not in a VAQ squadron, doesn't mean that I cant glean useful information from a mishap ie CRM, ORM, NAV, command culture, etc. There should be a master database of all mishaps and you should be able to browse and query to find what you want. for instance: Safety standdown coming up on CRM? I should be able to poll the database for every mishap report where CRM or communication was listed as a causal factor. Same goes for improper procedures, mechanical failures, all 60's, etc. How about we use these to gain the full benefit they were intended to provide instead of going overboard with dumb as shit paranoia as usual.
That being said, having first hand knowledge of several recent mishaps, I would be highly reluctant to ever willingly participate in one again, even including statements of fact whether related to myself or anyone else. I think the way they are currently conducted leads to some completely bullshit outcomes.
That being said, having first hand knowledge of several recent mishaps, I would be highly reluctant to ever willingly participate in one again, even including statements of fact whether related to myself or anyone else. I think the way they are currently conducted leads to some completely bullshit outcomes.