Question about accession programs and designators

[LFCFan]

While I was at OCS, I learned that academy and ROTC guys can only go URL under normal circumstances. I grew up around the AF, where anyone could go into pretty much any job out of the academy or ROTC, and gather from having read "Absolutely American" that the same is true for the Army. I was curious as to why the Navy has this system when it appears that other branches do not.

 

[Gatordev]

It's actually relatively new. They changed the policy at some point very early on when I was a Mid around '94. It might have even gone hand in hand when they changed everyone's commission to USNR, but I can't remember.

I think it was a way to channel everyone into the communities "they" wanted and if you wanted to go some place special, you had to earn your pin first and then transfer...an "everyone's a war-fighter" idea before we started fighting focused wars. There were still onesy-twosey's that would commission into a RL designator if they went NPQ during their asscession training. This was also at the tail-end of the draw down of the early '90's.

 

[Spekkio]

So in other words: not enough SWO and sub DH retention, so funnel everyone there first?

 

[Flash]

While I was at OCS, I learned that academy and ROTC guys can only go URL under normal circumstances. I grew up around the AF, where anyone could go into pretty much any job out of the academy or ROTC, and gather from having read "Absolutely American" that the same is true for the Army. I was curious as to why the Navy has this system when it appears that other branches do not.

There are a couple of reasons the Navy does this, I am going to hazard a guess that the main one being we have fewer 'support' officers than the USAF and the Army and many of the 'support' officers we do have are directly accessed into their specialized communities like Supply and Seabees. We are a 'leaner' organization than the USAF and Army for several reasons; the Army needs to have a large and diverse set of officers for the myriad of functions it has to perform from chemical warfare (Chemical Corps) to enormous logistical responsibilities (three different branches to include Quartermaster, Ordnance and Transportation Corps') and even veterinary services (to include food inspection) the other services don't do on the same scale or even at all. The USAF has some of the same but also a bit of 'bloat' when it comes to their officer corps if you ask me, they have everyone from finance officers that handle stuff our enlisted specialists do and even have MWR officers who run the base gyms and other MWR functions. They also do have a considerable number of specialist officers as well to include space operations folks and specialist engineers in stuff like nuclear and satellite design that the Navy has only on a very small scale.

Another reason is the one Gatordev mentioned, if some of the people didn't get experience first in a 'warfare' specialty then they could spend most of their career out of the loop on what the 'real' Navy actually does for a living. I have seen folks like this across all services, mostly in the USAF though, and it is usually detrimental when an O-5 or O-6 is placed in a position of authority when they have little to no 'operational' experience.

It's actually relatively new. They changed the policy at some point very early on when I was a Mid around '94. It might have even gone hand in hand when they changed everyone's commission to USNR, but I can't remember.

I remember that as well, as well as how crushed some of my classmates were that they couldn't go straight to Crypto or Intel anymore, but several of my instructors mentioned that they were just returning to 'the way things used to be' just a few years earlier (80's?) that they remembered.

 

[Renegade One]

I think it's Deja Vu All Over Again. While didn't come up through either accession pipeline, I was always told back then that USNA and ROTC folks had to go URL if they were physically qualified…which seemed like a fair trade considering the cost of the education provided. Yeah, sure, I'm sure there were exceptions.

Roger Staubach, who was permitted to become the Naval Academy's first graduate to be commissioned directly into the Supply Corps, went that route only due to color blindness detected in his junior year….and yet he volunteered for duty in Chu Lai, Vietnam, where he served for a year before returning to stateside duty for the remainder of his commitment.

 

[LFCFan]

I also realized after posting this that the AF in particular would be up the creek if they adopted a similar policy. Other than pilots, CSOs, and a few specwar type jobs, there are few other classifications that would be URL (AF doesn't use RL/URL distinction IIRC), so a lot of folks would end up NPQed from flight physicals and there would be a ton of "exceptions" every year.

Even when I was a loyal AF brat who hadn't thought about the navy at all I thought making an academy grad an MWR officer was a ridiculous way to spend money.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

It's actually relatively new. They changed the policy at some point very early on when I was a Mid around '94. It might have even gone hand in hand when they changed everyone's commission to USNR, but I can't remember.

I like the use of "new" and '94 in the same sentence, you have made me feel young

 

[exNavyOffRec]

While I was at OCS, I learned that academy and ROTC guys can only go URL under normal circumstances. I grew up around the AF, where anyone could go into pretty much any job out of the academy or ROTC, and gather from having read "Absolutely American" that the same is true for the Army. I was curious as to why the Navy has this system when it appears that other branches do not.

I know a few that went RL from the USNA, but they had medical issues that prevented the URL path, this might be comparable but on the OCS side the good OR's look for people to fit into 2 designators, Pilot and Nuke, if you look for those 2 the rest will trickledown and fill in, maybe part of the thought is if the USN shoots to have the USNA grads go URL, the trickledown due to URL disquals will fill in the rest.

 

[RiseR 25]

There are a couple of reasons the Navy does this, I am going to hazard a guess that the main one being we have fewer 'support' officers than the USAF and the Army and many of the 'support' officers we do have are directly accessed into their specialized communities like Supply and Seabees. We are a 'leaner' organization than the USAF and Army for several reasons; the Army needs to have a large and diverse set of officers for the myriad of functions it has to perform from chemical warfare (Chemical Corps) to enormous logistical responsibilities (three different branches to include Quartermaster, Ordnance and Transportation Corps') and even veterinary services (to include food inspection) the other services don't do on the same scale or even at all. The USAF has some of the same but also a bit of 'bloat' when it comes to their officer corps if you ask me, they have everyone from finance officers that handle stuff our enlisted specialists do and even have MWR officers who run the base gyms and other MWR functions. They also do have a considerable number of specialist officers as well to include space operations folks and specialist engineers in stuff like nuclear and satellite design that the Navy has only on a very small scale.

Another reason is the one Gatordev mentioned, if some of the people didn't get experience first in a 'warfare' specialty then they could spend most of their career out of the loop on what the 'real' Navy actually does for a living. I have seen folks like this across all services, mostly in the USAF though, and it is usually detrimental when an O-5 or O-6 is placed in a position of authority when they have little to no 'operational' experience.



I remember that as well, as well as how crushed some of my classmates were that they couldn't go straight to Crypto or Intel anymore, but several of my instructors mentioned that they were just returning to 'the way things used to be' just a few years earlier (80's?) that they remembered.

The Air Force definitely exhibits a "bloat" in its Officer Corps. Not to say that it doesn't work for the service, but can be extremely demotivating for a young AFROTC cadet knowing all the places you could end up.

 

[LET73]

My guess is that if the Navy's going to pay for you to get a college education, you're going to go where the Navy needs you, and the Navy needs more URL ensigns than it does staff corps/restricted line. If they end up with too many aviators, they can redesignate more people to other communities that have shorter pipelines, and they need plenty of SWO ensigns because so many of those don't stay in past their initial commitment.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

My guess is that if the Navy's going to pay for you to get a college education, you're going to go where the Navy needs you, and the Navy needs more URL ensigns than it does staff corps/restricted line. If they end up with too many aviators, they can redesignate more people to other communities that have shorter pipelines, and they need plenty of SWO ensigns because so many of those don't stay in past their initial commitment.

Funny that SWO(C) have so many leave while SWO(N) have too many that try to stay, so much so they have been creating billets for those on their 2nd nuke sea tour.

 

[RiseR 25]

Hopefully this question is on topic with this thread. Has the board been known to send your packet to other communities even when you don't apply for them? The only reason I'm concerned about it is due to the fact that I have an engineering degree, and I'm thinking they might try and place Nuke on the table even though I only applied SNA.

 

[RiseR 25]

FYI the Navy has not payed for my college education if it helps.

 

[BackOrdered]

Hopefully this question is on topic with this thread. Has the board been known to send your packet to other communities even when you don't apply for them? The only reason I'm concerned about it is due to the fact that I have an engineering degree, and I'm thinking they might try and place Nuke on the table even though I only applied SNA.

No. You will only go before the board you requested.

 

[RiseR 25]

No. You will only go before the board you requested.

Thanks tiz84!