Questions about being a SWO after OCS

[enlUSMC]

Here's the way it works. You are ranked among the other SWO's; this is the order you will pick when you decide ships. As a SWO, you will attend a ship selection brief on a Friday, where the ship list will be distributed. It'll be # of SWO's plus one, sometimes plus two. After you receive the list, the SWO's will pick on the following Monday (or Tuesday, if Monday is a federal holiday). Typically, the group discusses the ships they want to be on, homeports they want to go to, their family situation, etc and picks the ships they want. If there are conflicts in choices, the two/three people talk it out. One thing to remember is that if someone who is ranked higher than you wants a ship, and doesn't want to give it up, you probably won't get that ship.

The key about ship selection is to keep an open mind. My class had 5/12 SWO's who wanted San Diego and only 2 spots. The class after me had a similar amount of people who wanted San Diego with only one spot. Maybe you won't have any San Diego spots, but 2-3 Spain instead. Maybe it'll be all Norfolk and one Pearl Harbor. Going in you just don't know, so it's better to have an open mind and not get settled on one place before you even know what your options will be.

How far into OCS did this occur?

 

[AllAmerican75]

So I've scoured these SWO threads and I'm hoping to get answers to some questions. I know that Sailor Bob would be the best place for this, but it limits users to people who've already at least been accepted to OCS and I'm still waiting to hear back.

Anyway, I went from being a hopeful Intel or IW applicant to completely wanting to go SWO. This might sound crazy to some based on a lot of the information I've encountered, but it truly sounds exciting to me and something that I'm well-suited for. I'm waiting to hear back from next Monday's board but in the mean time I thought I'd see if I can get some questions answered.

From what I understand, after OCS all SWOs must go to BDOC within 6 months of commissioning, which takes place at either San Diego or VA Beach depending on where one is stationed. How long is BDOC, and what is it like? Also, how is it determined where you'll be stationed? Does the order of choice go based on class rank at OCS, as I've seen in some places? If so, what are the choices like? For example, I imagine that there are a ton of openings in Norfolk, but are there always slots for every other base? How likely is it that I would get my first or second choice, if that's even how it works? If I were to be accepted to OCS (fingers crossed), from what I know of my options, my top choice would be to be stationed in Everett, WA. Is this likely to happen right now?

Sorry for the barrage of questions. I'm just eager to learn as much as I can about my hopeful career path while I'm waiting to hear back from next week's SWO board. I'll make a Sailor Bob account if, God willing, I'm accepted, but I really enjoy AW and I'm glad that there's a SWO forum here.

We had the list distributed after RLP and then the SWOs had to choose a couple weeks before graduation. I was a special case as I redesignated at OCS. Anyway, like everyone else has said, you pretty much get a list and then hash it out with your classmates. The list of ships depends upon when you are at OCS. If you are selecting your ships during Academy and NROTC ship selection (January to March timeframe) you can expect to get slim pickings, e.g. lots of Norfolk ships and then more Norfolk ships. If you are selecting any other time it's a crap shoot depending upon who has slots for new ensigns available. My classmates (Had ship selection in late November, early December) had zero Norfolk ships available and a bunch available in Hawaii and Japan. In total it was 3 in San Diego, 1 pre-comm in Hawaii, 1 to Everett, and 2 to Japan. When I redesignated I had little choice because it was February (I got the NAMI Whammy with about a week left) and I got the leftovers from the Academy and NROTC bubbas.

As for BDOC, I can't tell you anything. I was part of the last cohort to go through the Baby SWOS and ASAT program. That was death by Powerpoint (from 0700 to 1700, M-F) and I'm sure BDOC has not changed. Your timing has everyhting to do with when you go to BDOC. Honestly, if you can go to your ship first for a little bit it will help you infinitely more because you will actually understand what the instructors are talking about because you've seen it and put your hands on it. Also, underway time would be tits if you can get it.

As for which ship to choose, I'd say go to a small boy like a minesweep or frigate. My first tour was on an FFG out of Mayport. The fun thing about smaller ships is that you get more exposure to doing Navy stuff. You'll have more responsibility and have more to do. In my first tour I got to see just about everything we do in the Surface community: counter narcotics, VBSS, counter-piracy, air warfare, anti-submarine warfare (my personal favorite), surface warfare, ATFP, joint exercises, international exercises. Sure, I wasn't with a strike group, but who cares. Strike group stuff is easy to learn. Small boys are where it's at. Plenty of underway time, tight-knit crew, lots of experience, and good ports. Oh, and yeah, if you're on an independent deployer instead of with a strike group you get to go to all of those ports that nobody has ever heard of and you get to see cool things. In my first year on the frigate I had been to four continents and seen over 15 countries. You don't to pull into Malta on a big deck, and you don't get to drink sangria in Cartagena, Spain, on a CG. Unfortunately frigates are going away, but there are independent destroyers. And one last plug, there are number of said destroyers in Rota, Spain; which is as close to Nirvana as you can find.

Just my $0.02; take them for what they're worth. I'm on my second tour on a PC and loving it. If you have any other questions I'd be more than happy to answer them. Also, anybody in the Norfolk area for BDOC, I'll be speaking on 11 March at the JO Discussion Forum. And please feel free to PM me any time.

 

[azguy]

My first tour was on an FFG out of Mayport. The fun thing about smaller ships is that you get more exposure to doing Navy stuff. You'll have more responsibility and have more to do. In my first tour I got to see just about everything we do in the Surface community: counter narcotics, VBSS, counter-piracy, air warfare, anti-submarine warfare (my personal favorite), surface warfare, ATFP, joint exercises, international exercises. Sure, I wasn't with a strike group, but who cares. Strike group stuff is easy to learn.

Reality check! FFGs don't do air defense, or "Navy stuff" writ large, at least for the last decade. Strike group stuff isn't easy to learn. VBSS/CP can, on occasion, be a lot of fun, speaking as a former boarding officer. But doing a CD deployment to SOUTHCOM doesn't give a JO very good exposure to SWO shit, especially not to the extent that you get on an AEGIS ship with a CSG. I've done the CSG cruise and the independent cruise BTW, so I'm not talking out of my ass here...

 

[AllAmerican75]

Reality check! FFGs don't do air defense, or "Navy stuff" writ large, at least for the last decade. Strike group stuff isn't easy to learn. VBSS/CP can, on occasion, be a lot of fun, speaking as a former boarding officer. But doing a CD deployment to SOUTHCOM doesn't give a JO very good exposure to SWO shit, especially not to the extent that you get on an AEGIS ship with a CSG. I've done the CSG cruise and the independent cruise BTW, so I'm not talking out of my ass here...

Sure, FFGs don't have VLS, SM-2s, or any of that gucci shit, but we did have an SPS-49 and CIWS and follow a lot of the same doctrine and NTTPs. You can get the basic framework. And when we worked with the Greeks, Turks, Brits, and Italians in 6th Fleet, I learned a lot about being part of strike group/task force/SAG/etc. And when we did work down in Africa I learned a lot about interdiction and MIO. And then there's ASW. Sure, we don't have AEGIS, but I've never been a disciple of the AEGIS cult. Again, it's just my opinion on the matter, as always YMMV.

 

[azguy]

Sure, FFGs don't have VLS, SM-2s, or any of that gucci shit, but we did have an SPS-49 and CIWS and follow a lot of the same doctrine and NTTPs. You can get the basic framework. And when we worked with the Greeks, Turks, Brits, and Italians in 6th Fleet, I learned a lot about being part of strike group/task force/SAG/etc. And when we did work down in Africa I learned a lot about interdiction and MIO. And then there's ASW. Sure, we don't have AEGIS, but I've never been a disciple of the AEGIS cult. Again, it's just my opinion on the matter, as always YMMV.

Hey, I did a FFG tour and loved it. Small ship, tight knit crew, and it's fun as hell to drive. Just don't let anyone tell you that doing a PASSEX or RAS with the Turks is akin to being the shotgun and driving around 1000 yards behind the CVN at 25 kts in plane guard.

 

[surfnturf88]

I'm going to be going into SWO as a LTJG (fallen angel) first tour divo. Since I'm a JG already I know I'm kind of behind in terms of progression since I should already be pinned and on my second divo tour at this point. I don't know if anybody knows somebody that has been in a similar situation but I'm assuming based on my case I'll have to get quals and pin pretty quick. Would it be better to go on a ship that's forward deployed or does it really matter?

 

[Uncle Fester]

I'm going to be going into SWO as a LTJG (fallen angel) first tour divo. Since I'm a JG already I know I'm kind of behind in terms of progression since I should already be pinned and on my second divo tour at this point. I don't know if anybody knows somebody that has been in a similar situation but I'm assuming based on my case I'll have to get quals and pin pretty quick. Would it be better to go on a ship that's forward deployed or does it really matter?

It's based on when you report aboard, not your years in service. You'll be in an unusual spot as an unqual'ed, first-tour jg, and I'm not sure how your captain and wardroom will handle you. But it's always best to get qual'ed as quick as possible, though some of that is out of your control. Try hard to be Super Shoe at least until you're pinned.

All other things being equal, I'd say yes, FDNF is the way to go. They're underway a lot and get to do a lot of "Shoe shit," and much of your PQS is seeing or doing evolutions, not just book learning. Don't know much about the Rota BMD ships and how that's working out, but the Japan guys keep busy. Plus, more port calls.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Hey, I did a FFG tour and loved it. Small ship, tight knit crew, and it's fun as hell to drive. Just don't let anyone tell you that doing a PASSEX or RAS with the Turks is akin to being the shotgun and driving around 1000 yards behind the CVN at 25 kts in plane guard.

Fair enough. I miss the FFG some days, but the PC is more fun. Have you signed the Blood Money yet?

I'm going to be going into SWO as a LTJG (fallen angel) first tour divo. Since I'm a JG already I know I'm kind of behind in terms of progression since I should already be pinned and on my second divo tour at this point. I don't know if anybody knows somebody that has been in a similar situation but I'm assuming based on my case I'll have to get quals and pin pretty quick. Would it be better to go on a ship that's forward deployed or does it really matter?

You're not as much of a redheaded stepchild as you think. I've got a number of buddies who showed up as JGs or Ensign-Upper Halfs and did just fine. As Uncle Fester mentioned your timeline to get pinned is more a function of when you report into your ship permanently (I-stops don't count). Right now, I think it's 18 months (I had 22 but was on the old program) and that's plenty of time. If you're lucky, you'll have a month or two on board before you report to BDOC that will allow you to get a handle on things a little bit more. Don't worry about becoming a non-qual though. As long as you're working hard and putting in the effort, your command will work with you to get you qualified in time. Remember, it sucks as much for them to put in the paperwork and letters to make you a non-qual as it does for you.

 

[VoodooNova]

Hey VoodooNova, I really appreciate your answer. You are right, my wife and I do need to keep an open mind about our ship selection.

When will my wife and son be able to move on base? Is it right after OCS when I go to base, or do they have to wait until I've completed BDOC? I'm hoping it's just after OCS. (Sorry, if this is a dumb question, but we're trying to plan as much as we can).

I'm single, so I don't have the answers to those questions. There will be staff that can answer those questions when you arrive at OCS.

How far into OCS did this occur?

The ship list was given to us the Friday of Week 6 and we picked the Tuesday of Week 7 (due to MLK Day on Monday).

 

[azguy]

Fair enough. I miss the FFG some days, but the PC is more fun. Have you signed the Blood Money yet?

Yep.

BT

@surfnturf88 - Fallen Angels are very common. I think I always had 1-2 of them in my wardrooms. Really a non-issue, I wouldn't worry about it. You will be treated as any other first tour Divo. Best bet for quick quals is to go to a ship that is deploying very shortly after yo arrive (if you're in a position to access ships schedules).

 

[surfnturf88]

Yep.

BT

@surfnturf88 - Fallen Angels are very common. I think I always had 1-2 of them in my wardrooms. Really a non-issue, I wouldn't worry about it. You will be treated as any other first tour Divo. Best bet for quick quals is to go to a ship that is deploying very shortly after yo arrive (if you're in a position to access ships schedules).

Yeah I don't think I have access to it yet, but I told the detailer I wanted either crudes or lcs. Wish I could choose from a list but probably not going to happen.

 

[surfnturf88]

Looks like I'll be going to Norfolk. Just curious though if your a single guy how do you work the living situation? Do you just break your apartment lease when your ship gets deployed then just find another place when you return?

 

[Bluecore]

Looks like I'll be going to Norfolk. Just curious though if your a single guy how do you work the living situation? Do you just break your apartment lease when your ship gets deployed then just find another place when you return?

I've been wondering this as well, as I will effectively be living as a single guy. I've considered the option of finding a person to rent a room from on a month to month basis, and just putting all my possessions in storage when leaving. Seems to be the best way to pocket the maximum amount of BAH.

 

[azguy]

You can't break your lease for a deployment, only a PCS move. I did the short term/month-month lease-> storage locker thing as a single guy; banked a shit ton of $$$. Keep in mind that deployment dates can change; my first was delayed by 7 months from what was scheduled and my second was all out cancelled, so get an appt that you will be OK living in for longer than expected.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Just don't be that guy who lives on the ship. Nothing good comes of being that guy.