Random Griz Aviation Musings

[Griz882]

Yikes! There is no recovery from that. Things like that are one of the reasons I stayed away from the Robinson products. Any helicopter manufacturer that warns you against doing full autos to the ground doesn’t get my vote. You have to get a special endorsement just to fly a Robinson. Very sad for the airmen involved.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Yikes! There is no recovery from that. Things like that are one of the reasons I stayed away from the Robinson products. Any helicopter manufacturer that warns you against doing full autos to the ground doesn’t get my vote. You have to get a special endorsement just to fly a Robinson. Very sad for the airmen involved.

Griz I have always been leery of the SFAR covering R22/R44's. I have had a number of offers to go teach in the platform - and do turbine conversion training in the R66. However the operator required that I pay for my own training and requirements to meet the PIC requirements of the SFAR - no thanks! The CFI's I have met all have flown nothing but R22/R44's and gained the SFAR endorsement/experience duing their own training - its become a incentious pool of instructors and students on that platform. Its crazy. Blind leading the blind.

These flight schools are attracting people with no other aviation experience - and I tell these young CFI;s that the best first platform for a young prospective professional helicopter pilot is a Cessna 172 - but they don't get it. Then these young guys/gals go on to tour operations in NYC, Grand Canyon, Alaska, Hawaii and coastal Florida - making no money - and killing passengers - like the idiot who killed his pax in the AS350 over NYC in the river....these people are making it to HEMS/HAA - like that chick flying the Survival Flight Ohio CFIT Bell 407 mishap.

 

[Griz882]

Griz I have always been leery of the SFAR covering R22/R44's. I have had a number of offers to go tech in the platform - and do turbine conversion training in the R66. However the operator required that I pay for my own training and requirements to meet the PIC requirements of the SFAR - no thanks! The CFI's I have met all have flown nothing but R22/R44's and gained the SFAR endorsement/experience duing theor own training - its become a incentious pool of instructors and students on that platform. Its crazy. Blind leading the blind.

That’s the impression I get. I know an R22 owner who hasn’t done an actual practice autorotation for four years! He doesn’t have to do them for his flight reviews because all the guys he uses are Robbi guys.

 

[wink]

That’s the impression I get. I know an R22 owner who hasn’t done an actual practice autorotation for four years! He doesn’t have to do them for his flight reviews because all the guys he uses are Robbi guys.

And my understanding is that it is critical to practice auto in Robinsons because there is so little rotor inertia you have to recognize the situation and get the collective down like yesterday. You can't be surprised by it or late with the inputs. Have I heard that right?

 

[ChuckMK23]

And my understanding is that it is critical to practice auto in Robinsons because there is so little rotor inertia you have to recognize the situation and get the collective down like yesterday. You can't be surprised by it or late with the inputs. Have I heard that right?

Affirm. Concur with this.

 

[Griz882]

Affirm. Concur with this.

Yes @wink like immediately is too late.

 

[VMO4]

I did an add on rotor rating in the R22 back nearly twenty years ago now. Keep in mind I never flew any other type of help. My CFI and I practiced autos all the time. We never did full autos all the way to the ground, but I did them to close enough I think I could have walked away from one if I had to do it for real. However, I felt that way only because we practiced them all the time. I cannot imagine being comfortable doing an auto unless practiced constantly. I remember being told the R22 was very easy to mast bump and to never get into any negative g at all. I was told never, ever, EVER let go of the cyclic, because she will start to roll, and yes, at the first sensation of RPM drop, or change in sound pitch, the collective gets dumped and the cyclic pushed over. If that is not enough, they are very prone to carb ice.

 

[Griz882]

I did an add on rotor rating in the R22 back nearly twenty years ago now. Keep in mind I never flew any other type of help. My CFI and I practiced autos all the time. We never did full autos all the way to the ground, but I did them to close enough I think I could have walked away from one if I had to do it for real. However, I felt that way only because we practiced them all the time. I cannot imagine being comfortable doing an auto unless practiced constantly. I remember being told the R22 was very easy to mast bump and to never get into any negative g at all. I was told never, ever, EVER let go of the cyclic, because she will start to roll, and yes, at the first sensation of RPM drop, or change in sound pitch, the collective gets dumped and the cyclic pushed over. If that is not enough, they are very prone to carb ice.

All good points…practice makes perfect. Mast bumping is another reason I stayed out of their product (and passed over a nicely kept FH-1100). Looking at the video this looks like mast bumping to me. A genuinely tragic event.

 

[number9]

And my understanding is that it is critical to practice auto in Robinsons because there is so little rotor inertia you have to recognize the situation and get the collective down like yesterday. You can't be surprised by it or late with the inputs. Have I heard that right?

From Philip Greenspun's website, which I used to read back in the day:

Due to its light weight and low inertia rotor system, the R22 is not forgiving of pilot error or sluggishness. After an engine failure, real or simulated, you and the instructor will have 1.6 seconds to lower the collective and enter an autorotation. Any delay beyond 1.6 seconds will be fatal as the rotor speed, once decayed below 80 percent, cannot be recovered. Frank Robinson did not design the R22 to be a trainer; he designed the R22 for a fast cruise speed and fuel efficiency. The R22 thus has a fast cruise speed, high fuel efficiency, and is a terrible trainer. Why do so many flight schools use the R22 for training? It is cheap to operate.

If you are looking for a trainer, consider the Robinson R44 instead. The R44 has about 4 seconds of rotor inertia rather than 1.6. That gives a pilot time to hear the low rotor RPM warning horn, look at the gauges, come up with a plan, and implement the plan (i.e., lower the collective and enter the autorotation). Count out 4 seconds to yourself and then count out 1.6.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Launching the morning go's at our USAF flight clinic at KDTO - giving many senior AF active duty types their first taste of GA flying. Transitioning from C-17, C-130, to modern new production Cessna 182T and Turbo 206H's with G1000 NXi flight deck.

 

[AIRMMCPORET]

Launching the morning go's at our USAF flight clinic at KDTO - giving many senior AF active duty types their first taste of GA flying. Transitioning from C-17, C-130, to modern new production Cessna 182T and Turbo 206H's with G1000 NXi flight deck. View attachment 34811

How does the CAP get funded for those planes?

 

[Potatomasher]

How does the CAP get funded for those planes?

That's why F35A's cost so much have to hide those G1000s funds somewhere

 

[AllAmerican75]

How does the CAP get funded for those planes?

Usually through a combination of funds provided through the USAF and corporate funds from partnerships and donations.

Fundraising | Financial Management

www.gocivilairpatrol.com

 

[ChuckMK23]

How does the CAP get funded for those planes?

It's a direct grant from USAF through NDAA. CAP itself is a permanent earmark through congressional charter. The grant is managed through a Title 2 Cooperative Agreement. On average about $60MM annually. 580 airplanes and around 10-15 new aircraft per year.

 

[wink]

Big weekend for the SW Chapter of the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation. Our Huey met the DER, who had nothing to outwardly mention about the airworthiness the aircraft, and sent his report off to the FAA. Should be cleared for hover tests. blade tracking, etc, by next weekend.

On the other side of the airport I was in a small crew that mounted the gun in our museum bound Desert Storm tribute AH-1. She should roll out next weekend for transmission, shaft and rotor assembly install. Anticipate chopping to the museum by the end of the month.