Reality Hits The Executive Branch...

[picklesuit]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/fir...upholds-terrorist-surveillance-secrecy-rules/

All of a sudden it doesn't look so black and white from the inside...maybe President Bush actualy knew what he was doing...what a thought!

 

[desertoasis]

I'm not sure where I stand on this, but my only thought after reading that is that there might be a difference between government transparency in the legislation process and the need for government secrecy in conducting investigations and surveillance on suspicious targets. Something like when you don't tell the public the whole story during a police investigation so the murderer doesn't find out they're onto him.

It seems like critics don't understand that distinction, and are expecting the government to tell us everything they are doing, and all the little nitpicky details. Am I off base here?

 

[blarged]

What lots of people fail to understand is along the lines of what desertoasis mentioned.

Transparency means keeping the public informed, not revealing the deepest darkest secrets.

I do believe, that it is not the best approach to flatly say, the information, if revealed, could be a hazard to public safety. If the government wants to be transparent they have to give a little more depth in their explanation.

In an abstract sense, the transparency concept of telling everyone everything is kind of nice... but when put into practice... not practical. I get the feeling President Obama got into office, was briefed on a few things and said.... "ah crap... we can't let everyone know all of this!"

 

[exhelodrvr]

I'm not sure where I stand on this, but my only thought after reading that is that there might be a difference between government transparency in the legislation process and the need for government secrecy in conducting investigations and surveillance on suspicious targets. Something like when you don't tell the public the whole story during a police investigation so the murderer doesn't find out they're onto him.

It seems like critics don't understand that distinction, and are expecting the government to tell us everything they are doing, and all the little nitpicky details. Am I off base here?

And you would think that hypothetical presidential and VP candidates would be aware of that during the campaign, and would not make promises contrary to that logic.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

And you would think that hypothetical presidential and VP candidates would be aware of that during the campaign, and would not make promises contrary to that logic.

That makes way too much sense. Better pull back on the reins a bit. Woooooah.

Reminds me of a heated debate I had with another student about the Pentagon Papers and whether or not they should have been released. They couldn't get it through their head that it really damages the country when secrets get out and that's why they're kept secret.

Oh well!

 

[HercDriver]

Yeah, it isn't just a black and white issue (though, oddly that is what the OP is making it out to be). There should be transparency on some issues and less transparency on others, but you would have to go issue by issue and do an examination to be sure.

To make a blanket statement that secrets shouldn't get out is incorrect, IMO. Some things done by the government should see the light of day, the amateurish way we've screwed up the handling of the Gitmo detainees being a prime example.

 

[phrogpilot73]

...the amateurish way we've screwed up the handling of the Gitmo detainees being a prime example.

This is what frustrates me about critics of the Bush administration. I agree that many things were done incorrectly under the previous administration. HOWEVER, the men and women who did the best they could under their orders (I'm talking the guards, administrators, etc... at Gitmo) could easily be interepreted to be lumped into this statement. From everything I've read and heard, the actual running of the prison is better than most prisons in the United States. However, you never hear that.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

Yeah, it isn't just a black and white issue (though, oddly that is what the OP is making it out to be). There should be transparency on some issues and less transparency on others, but you would have to go issue by issue and do an examination to be sure.

To make a blanket statement that secrets shouldn't get out is incorrect, IMO. Some things done by the government should see the light of day, the amateurish way we've screwed up the handling of the Gitmo detainees being a prime example.

So the citizens can lose more faith in government and the military? I'll respectfully disagree.

I always thought keeping the mistakes made from the people was a good idea so long as you straighten them out right away. If they're not getting straightened then you have an internal problem and it needs to be solved. That problem won't get solved by letting everyone know about it.

 

[Godspeed]

All of a sudden it doesn't look so black and white

Why does it have to always be a racial thing?

Anyone been to recovery.org? What a joke that site is.... It's supposed to be the administrations attempt at "transparency". It is anything but. What a joke.

 

[MrsPickle]

Yeah, it isn't just a black and white issue (though, oddly that is what the OP is making it out to be). There should be transparency on some issues and less transparency on others, but you would have to go issue by issue and do an examination to be sure.

To make a blanket statement that secrets shouldn't get out is incorrect, IMO. Some things done by the government should see the light of day, the amateurish way we've screwed up the handling of the Gitmo detainees being a prime example.

I thought it wasn't all black and white, Herc. You are assuming that:
1) things are completely screwed up at gitmo
2) it is entirely our previous admin's fault (i.e. not the direct in command interpreting orders, etc)
3) the current admin is going to charge in on their white horse and fix it all

My question is, did your parents tell you everything about everything going on all the time, when you were growing up? Does your significant other tell you EVERYTHING that is going on in their day? No. We don't need to know EVERYTHING that is going on in our government, all the time.

There are also things that do not need to be known to the average "Billy and Betty Dumbass." (think the Code Pink bitches and what they'd do with some of the military information- scary)

The average american is not smart enough to comprehend most of what is going on in our government everyday. Why fog up their cigarette-and-beer-riddled-mind with government security?

 

[HercDriver]

I thought it wasn't all black and white, Herc. You are assuming that:
1) things are completely screwed up at gitmo
2) it is entirely our previous admin's fault (i.e. not the direct in command interpreting orders, etc)
3) the current admin is going to charge in on their white horse and fix it all

My question is, did your parents tell you everything about everything going on all the time, when you were growing up? Does your significant other tell you EVERYTHING that is going on in their day? No. We don't need to know EVERYTHING that is going on in our government, all the time.

There are also things that do not need to be known to the average "Billy and Betty Dumbass." (think the Code Pink bitches and what they'd do with some of the military information- scary)

The average american is not smart enough to comprehend most of what is going on in our government everyday. Why fog up their cigarette-and-beer-riddled-mind with government security?

I don't assume any of those things.
Quick questions; how many of the people at Gitmo have been successfully prosecuted? How many tenets of the way we have tried bringing them to trial have been overturned?

 

[mmx1]

[/B]
So the citizens can lose more faith in government and the military? I'll respectfully disagree.

I always thought keeping the mistakes made from the people was a good idea so long as you straighten them out right away. If they're not getting straightened then you have an internal problem and it needs to be solved. That problem won't get solved by letting everyone know about it.

Let's cover up mistakes to sponsor false confidence in the command.

Let me know how that flies as a leadership policy.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

Let's cover up mistakes to sponsor false confidence in the command.

Let me know how that flies as a leadership policy.

By that logic I should be telling you when I hit the toilet with my piss right? Oops I made a mistake. I better tell everyone.

People make mistakes. That doesn't mean everybody has to know about it. As long as the problem gets FIXED.

A loss of confidence in the command can lead to low morale and in the worst case rebellion.

You tell me what you think is better.

 

[mmx1]

By that logic I should be telling you when I hit the toilet with my piss right? Oops I made a mistake. I better tell everyone.

People make mistakes. That doesn't mean everybody has to know about it. As long as the problem gets FIXED.

A loss of confidence in the command can lead to low morale and in the worst case rebellion.

You tell me what you think is better.

Rebellion.

 

[Clux4]

Let us fire Judges and claim it was not politically motivated. How about having a sick man on his death bed sign a few documents?