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Report: U.S. Fires on Freed Journalist

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Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
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TransvestFO said:
My thoughts are neither Rep nor Dem. Who cares anyway.

Where did THAT come from? I didn't see anything about left or right politics in the above....

I also think that some people see understanding as sympathizing... just gotta be clear that it's not the same (I know what you meant by your post).
 

TransvestFO

Seven years of college, down the drain.
"It sounds an awful lot like the strategy of a certain recent Democratic administration."

I get defensive when someone calls me a Dem. Sorry.
 

Ryoukai

The Chief doesn't like cheeky humor...at all
Brett327 said:
I disagree with your entire premise. It sounds an awful lot like the strategy of a certain recent Democratic administration. I'm not interested in understanding the littany of grievances that Islamofacism has with the West. We're never going to "win them over" to our point of view. I am just interested in their annihilation.

Good times,

Brett

You are the person that the world of radical reactionary Islam is banking on. It's a fabulously complex situation and there is no clear cut "good" answer to it, but I can assure you that trying to wipe them out will only breed more fanatics. Cut off one head to find two more in its place, sound familiar? If you do some reading and study the subject a bit, you'd find that Islam is actually one of the more easy going religions as far as getting along with others is concerned. It's the few bad apples who ruin the whole bunch. I assume you're of the mindset that these people are horrible and awful, can't fault you there, but you're coming back with the exact same idea that they have for us. In essense, you're their counterpart on the other side of the fence.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
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Ryoukai said:
You are the person that the world of radical reactionary Islam is banking on. It's a fabulously complex situation and there is no clear cut "good" answer to it, but I can assure you that trying to wipe them out will only breed more fanatics. Cut off one head to find two more in its place, sound familiar? If you do some reading and study the subject a bit, you'd find that Islam is actually one of the more easy going religions as far as getting along with others is concerned. It's the few bad apples who ruin the whole bunch. I assume you're of the mindset that these people are horrible and awful, can't fault you there, but you're coming back with the exact same idea that they have for us. In essense, you're their counterpart on the other side of the fence.
It would appear that you believe that I lump in the extremists with the rest of Islam. I don't.

Brett
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Ryoukai, you know you're talking to a Fleet aviator right? Watch your tone...
 

Broadsword2004

Registered User
According to the U.S. troops, they signaled the car with flares and fired warning shots, whereas the journalist herself says none of this happened. Her being totally anti-U.S., from a Communist newspaper, and the fact that the road is famous for car-bombs, makes it sound suspicious to me. Here is some of the story I just saw on MSN:

ROME - The Italian journalist wounded by American troops in Iraq after her release by insurgents rejected the U.S. military’s account of the shooting and declined Sunday to rule out the possibility she was deliberately targeted. The White House said it was a “horrific accident” and promised a full investigation.

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Meanwhile, an autopsy performed on the agent who died trying to save Giuliana Sgrena reportedly showed he was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly as the car carrying Sgrena sped to the Baghdad airport.

Friday’s shooting that wounded the 56-year-old journalist and killed Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari as they were celebrating her freedom has fueled anti-American sentiment in a country where people are deeply opposed to U.S. policy in Iraq.

Italian reaction
But government officials indicated the shootings would not affect the decision by Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi — a strong U.S. ally — to maintain 3,000 troops in Iraq to help secure peace in the country.

“The military mission must carry on because it consolidates democracy and liberty in Iraq,” Communications Minister Maurizio Gasparri was quoted as saying by the ANSA news agency. “On the other hand, we must control — but not block — the presence of civilians and journalists, who must observe rules and behavior to reduce the risks.”

Sgrena, who works for the communist daily Il Manifesto, did not rule out that she was targeted, saying the United States likely disapproved of Italy’s methods to secure her release, although she did not elaborate.

FREE VIDEO


• Freed hostage upset by shooting
March 5: The agent who freed Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, died protecting her from a barrage of bullets from U.S. troops. NBC's Keith Miller reports.
Nightly News


“The fact that the Americans don’t want negotiations to free the hostages is known,” Sgrena told Sky TG24 television by telephone, her voice hoarse and shaky. “The fact that they do everything to prevent the adoption of this practice to save the lives of people held hostages, everybody knows that. So I don’t see why I should rule out that I could have been the target.”

Italian officials have not provided details about the negotiations leading to Sgrena’s release Friday after a month in captivity, but Agriculture Minister Giovanni Alemanno was quoted as saying it was “very likely” a ransom was paid. U.S. officials object to ransoms, saying it encourages further kidnappings.

White House counselor Dan Bartlett said Sunday the shootings were a “horrific accident” and pointed out that President Bush had called Berlusconi to offer condolences and promise a full investigation.

“As you know, in a situation where there is a live combat zone, particularly this road to the airport, has been a notorious area for car bombs, that people are making split-second decisions, and it’s critically important that we get the facts before we make judgments,” Bartlett said on CNN’s “Late Edition.”

The U.S. military has said the car Sgrena was riding in was speeding, and Americans used hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and warning shots to get it to stop at the roadblock.

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But in an interview with Italian La 7 TV, Sgrena said, “There was no bright light, no signal.” She also said the car was traveling at “regular speed.”

Sgrena also recalled how Calipari, who led negotiations for her release, died after throwing himself over her when the shooting broke out as they were celebrating her freedom on the way to the airport.

'I felt his last breath'
“I remember only fire,” she wrote in Il Manifesto, which fiercely opposed the war in Iraq. “At that point a rain of fire and bullets came at us, forever silencing the happy voices from a few minutes earlier.”

Sgrena said the driver began shouting that they were Italian, then “Nicola Calipari dove on top of me to protect me and immediately, and I mean immediately, I felt his last breath as he died on me.”

Suddenly, she said, she remembered her captors’ words, when they warned her “to be careful because the Americans don’t want you to return.”

Sgrena wrote that her captors warned her as she was about to be released not to signal her presence to anyone, because “the Americans might intervene.” She said her captors blindfolded her and drove her to a location where she was turned over to agents and they set off for the airport.

'Aggressive' investigation promised
Calipari’s body was returned to Italy late Saturday, and Berlusconi and President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi joined Calipari’s wife, mother and two children at Rome’s Ciampino Airport to receive it.

An autopsy was performed Sunday, and ANSA quoted doctors as saying Calipari was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly.


• Rules of engagement
March 5: The U.S. is promising a full investigation of why a vehicle carrying a newly freed Italian hostage was shot by U.S. troops. NBC's Peter Alexander reports.
Nightly News



The body lay in state at Rome’s Vittoriano monument and a state funeral was planned for Monday. Calipari was to be awarded the gold medal of valor for his heroism.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld called Italy’s defense minister, Antonio Martino, “to express the sorrow of the American administration, and his own personal sorrow for the death of Nicola Calipari,” Italy’s Defense Ministry said in a statement. The U.S. military has promised an “aggressive” investigation.

Italian military officials said two other agents were wounded, but U.S. officials said it was only one.

Iraqi politician Younadem Kana told Belgian state TV Saturday evening that he had “nonofficial” information that a $1 million ransom was paid for Sgrena’s release, the Apcom news agency reported from Brussels. The report could not be confirmed.

Sgrena told Sky TG24 she had no intention of returning to Iraq. Her captors, she said, made it clear that “they do not want witnesses and we are all perceived as possible spies.”

Sgrena was abducted Feb. 4 by gunmen who blocked her car outside Baghdad University. She was later shown in a video pleading for her life and demanding that all foreign troops — including Italian forces — leave Iraq.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
 

TransvestFO

Seven years of college, down the drain.
Lot's of emotion on this one, as well there should be. Let's just say "don't believe everything you read". I don't believe much of what this Italian reporter is saying for sure. Also, our ROE in theater is (open source) not very restrictive. No right or wrong, It's just hard to spread the good word from behind a loaded weapon with a warm barrel. Not many cultures in history have had long-term success with this technique.
For our part as US Military Officers, it matters little. We are obliged to follow orders and conduct ops in accordance with ROE and LOAC. I, personnally, would rarely question the ACTIONS of our well trained Marines and Soilders. No military in the world better prepares their forces to follow rules (at times to our detriment), and that is a fact. As an Officer though, I am obligated to look at and question our ROE and the means we use to achieve our ends within the established bounds of the Laws of Armed Conflict (LOAC). In my case, that includes how we are perceived.
Truth? Perception is all the truth most of the world needs. What do you think the world's perception of the US is and how do you think we could improve it? Talk about walking a tightrope! I know most will think "who cares what the world thinks, shoot first and ask questions later". Well, you just have to remember what our purpose is as a military. We are protecting the interests of US citizens and supporting their (our) abilities to access the world's markets and resources. Part of that job has to be marketing.
This is a fairely new and interesting topic. This has all really started to re-organize within the last 3 years (though the theme is centuries old). If you are curious, which you should be, google "Information Operations", "Civil-military affairs" and stuff like that. This is a war we can win for sure, no question. It just has to be fought in a way that not many of us are used to thinking about.
To put this new task into perspective, picture the average Iranian, Iraqi, Saudi Arabian, Venezuelan, Cuban, Korean, whatever as being "Bubba" living somewhere in Alabama-no offense to any locals- (shouldn't be too hard for most of you having lived in P'cola for some period of time). Picture what it would take to sway Bubba's opinion one direction or the other. If you are operating off the coast of Alabama maintaining sea lanes for freedom of navigation, what message would Bubba need to here so that he doesn't drive his John-boat out and try to blow you up. How do you get that message to him, radio, tv? What dialect do you use (certainly not standard English-again, no offense)? Is it better to just off Bubba or to convince him that being free is the way to go so that later he will buy your products? (remember what our goal is) How do you do that? You can see how many would just rather drop a bomb on Bubba. It is easier by far than figuring Bubba out. There are many problems with just bombing Bubba. Bubba has friends. Bubba had relatives. Bubba has world-wide sympathizers. What happens to your credability when Bubba's family and the rest of the community gets word after the local press puts their spin on it. You potentially damage your long-term effort, bump up the future costs of your operations and put your soilder's/sailors/marines at higher risk by just not thinking it through.
 

TransvestFO

Seven years of college, down the drain.
Fire, you couldn't be more correct. The key words there are "she's going to spin this...". And she is not alone. There are many in the press who are spinning are actions in a large variety of ways. It is interesting that you immediately went to an example from your personal experience (Fort Knox visit). Guess what, this is what the rest of the world does too. Wether the US forces where right or wrong in their actions at that check-point is really of little consequence to the overall effort. It's the spin that is important. It is the information and how it is released and percieved that we must get our hands around. And to do that, we must really understand the cultures and perceptions of the countries we operate in. Interesting banter. For most of you, just get through flight school and learn to exercise your weapons system. Remember, it is all about "Fires" and you, as a military aviator, are just another source of fires for the CoCom in whatever theater you are operating in. How he choses to use you and how his and your actions are percieved is my job (and many, many others). The better you are, the easier my job... so study hard.
 
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