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Road to 350: What Does the US Navy Do Anyway?

Flash said:
In 'normal' times the deployment of the National Guard would be much less controversial, as it has been when the NY ARNG deployed to help with security in NYC at times. But this seems to be deliberately confrontational and possibly prepping for something much bigger and far more intrusive, planting at flag so to speak before pushing for more, and more...and more.

The number of Guardsmen being deployed is not significant, 200 to start so you are talking about having ~50 on duty at one time, a small enough number that frankly probably could be done by other Federal law enforcement as it has been done in the past. A much larger role for the Guard and the military in domestic law enforcement has been and continues to be advocated by current government officials, so it really isn't a stretch to think this is only the beginning of a much larger push for a military role in domestic law enforcement.
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First, I agree that the current push is deliberately confrontational. Trump trying to paint every “big city” mayor as soft on crime. Admittedly, some are, like Chicago and Portland, but others really aren’t like L.A. and DC but I agree this is contest between Trump and city progressives. Second, you may be right, and we wouldn’t be the first. Sweden recently passed a law to ease the use of military in law enforcement roles. We are fortunate to have the National Guard (assuming they are primarily used locally) because they genuinely want to help but are often citizens of the impacted area.
 
Griz882 said:
First, I agree that the current push is deliberately confrontational. Trump trying to paint every “big city” mayor as soft on crime. Admittedly, some are, like Chicago and Portland, but others really aren’t like L.A. and DC but I agree this is contest between Trump and city progressives. Second, you may be right, and we wouldn’t be the first. Sweden recently passed a law to ease the use of military in law enforcement roles. We are fortunate to have the National Guard (assuming they are primarily used locally) because they genuinely want to help but are often citizens of the impacted area.
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I remember sitting through a criminal justice elective 20ish years ago and the punch-line of the course was that the CJ system was rigged against black Americans due to a myriad of different factors.

The people who sat through more than one of those courses on the way to law degrees became Democrat governors and legislature members of blue states and enacted several CJ reforms to try to de-rig the system... policies like catch-and-release, mandatory discovery, and de-criminilizing recreational drug use. Republicans accuse these reforms as being red tape that impedes effective law enforcement. In NY, Republicans ceased to be a relevant party after Bloomberg turned purple.

City police enforce state criminal laws and follow state guidelines.

Like many things, Trump latches onto a nugget of truth and then takes it to 11.
 
One of my favorite Business/Financial/Economic news hosts - Kai Ryssdal (Marketplace on NPR stations) with some great SA and commentary on current status of economy.

This is germane for A-Dub because Kai is a former E-2C pilot and a product of AOCS.

Kai speaks with another of my favorite media personalities, NYU professor Scott Galloway.

 
From the WSJ:

Trump Pushes for New Classes of Navy Warships​

Specifically, the White House and the Pentagon are in early talks about building a heavily armored, next-generation ship that could weigh as much as 15,000-20,000 tons and carry more powerful weapons, even potentially hypersonic missiles, in larger numbers than current destroyers and cruisers, the current and former officials said.

 
Randy Daytona said:
From the WSJ:

Trump Pushes for New Classes of Navy Warships​

Specifically, the White House and the Pentagon are in early talks about building a heavily armored, next-generation ship that could weigh as much as 15,000-20,000 tons and carry more powerful weapons, even potentially hypersonic missiles, in larger numbers than current destroyers and cruisers, the current and former officials said.

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Will never happen.
 
Brett327 said:
Will never happen.
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It’s not as utterly batshit insane as the headline makes it sound. The Burkes are 10k ton ships, DDG1000 is already a 16k ton ship, and we do need a next gen DDG replacement for the Burkes and the Ticonderoga. The Burkes were already basically maxed out internally, and the changes for Flight 3 didn’t help with that at all. It’s also why the latest Burke modernizations look really stupid as things continue to be added beyond the capacity of the hull design.

Adding hypersonic missiles shouldn’t be that crazy too. The ChiComs have already gotten there, and their Renhai already even carries an ASBM.

If the US Navy really wants to continue to maintain its prominence at sea, a next gen cruiser and destroyer replacement is actually pretty “normal” to maintain continuity to the current Fleet design. Defending the CVN has only gotten harder, and debacles like where we took the requirements for DDG1000 and LCS (literally a 180 from legacy CVN/Fleet war at sea) will take effort to undo.

This sounds like a Trumpified version of addressing a “cruiser gap” except it’s probably a lot more of a real gap than the Cold War version.
 
BigRed389 said:
It’s not as utterly batshit insane as the headline makes it sound. The Burkes are 10k ton ships, DDG1000 is already a 16k ton ship, and we do need a next gen DDG replacement for the Burkes and the Ticonderoga. The Burkes were already basically maxed out internally, and the changes for Flight 3 didn’t help with that at all. It’s also why the latest Burke modernizations look really stupid as things continue to be added beyond the capacity of the hull design.

Adding hypersonic missiles shouldn’t be that crazy too. The ChiComs have already gotten there, and their Renhai already even carries an ASBM.

If the US Navy really wants to continue to maintain its prominence at sea, a next gen cruiser and destroyer replacement is actually pretty “normal” to maintain continuity to the current Fleet design. Defending the CVN has only gotten harder, and debacles like where we took the requirements for DDG1000 and LCS (literally a 180 from legacy CVN/Fleet war at sea) will take effort to undo.

This sounds like a Trumpified version of addressing a “cruiser gap” except it’s probably a lot more of a real gap than the Cold War version.
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I'm not saying we don't need more and better ships... just that whatever hare-brained version of that which is conjured by Trump should (and will) be aggressively discarded as soon as Trump is gone. Whatever one thinks of the President, his ideas about most things having to do with the military come from a child-like understanding of mission and requirements. None of us should want politicians defining what our future capabilities ought to be.
 
Brett327 said:
I'm not saying we don't need more and better ships... just that whatever hare-brained version of that which is conjured by Trump should (and will) be aggressively discarded as soon as Trump is gone. Whatever one thinks of the President, his ideas about most things having to do with the military come from a child-like understanding of mission and requirements. None of us should want politicians defining what our future capabilities ought to be.
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And this hits right at the heart of my joke photo. The very broad idea isn’t bad, but Trump has a particular aesthetic that is focused more on appearance than capability.
 
Griz882 said:
And this hits right at the heart of my joke photo. The very broad idea isn’t bad, but Trump has a particular aesthetic that is focused more on appearance than capability.
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That articulates my first thought very well. Also, POTUS does not need to be designing warships. Let the people who are actually analyzing capability gaps and future needs do that.
 
Griz882 said:
And this hits right at the heart of my joke photo. The very broad idea isn’t bad, but Trump has a particular aesthetic that is focused more on appearance than capability.
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Looks like a WWI German battlecruiser design with 1 main turret forward, 2 aft and wing turrets.

That said, this over reliance on missiles doesn’t seem to be practical or affordable- perhaps a few more 5”/62’s and 76’s would make a more effective layered defense against airborne and seaborne drones, saving missiles for more valuable targets. I am curious as to how well an old school 6” armored belt (Baltimore class heavy cruiser) would do against seaborne drones.

The $30B for 3 Zumwalts, another $30B for near useless LCS’s and the delays on the Constitution class frigates haven’t really inspired much confidence.
 
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