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Role of the Military after Katrina

jamnww

Hangar Four
pilot
Been watching the news and have already started to hear people claim that the delay in relief is Bush's fault and that the entire military should be mobilized immediately to assist. The question though is what role should the military take in the relief effort?

Obviously everyone wants whatever steps that can be taken to be taken immediately but what more can be done. Already there are at least 20,000 National Guard members, the medical ship Comfort, 4 Amphib ships, thousands of police officers / medical personnel / firefighters either on scene or will be on scene soon. So what does that give us? I would think that the NG will provide the majority of boots on the ground while the Active Duty military provides medical personnel and helicopters and other transoportation units. What exactly would an increase of boots on the ground provide? Furthermore, there are laws that limit the ability of the national military to operate in the CONUS so how do those factor in with aviation units as compared to ground units?

How does looting and rioting help the situation at all? How does hyjacking relief trucks make things better? The only thing that see it causing is exactly what appears to be happening, vital personnel are being diverted from life saving to security operations. Why should rescue personnel have to risk their lives to do their job? Is it time to actually declare martial law? Is it going too far to start shooting looters?
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
Furthermore, there are laws that limit the ability of the national military to operate in the CONUS
The Posse Comitatus Act indeed limits said ability, except 1) when waived by the President in times of national emergency and 2) when such forces are authorized by Congress. I think you've seen #1 already, and are likely to see #2 tonight or tomorrow.

Also, I hope it's not the role described in a Sun-Times editorial:
On Wednesday reporters listening to horrific stories of death and survival at the Biloxi Junior High School shelter looked north across Irish Hill Road and saw Air Force personnel playing basketball and performing calisthenics. When asked why these young men were not being used to help in the recovery effort, our reporters were told that it would be pointless to send military personnel down to the beach to pick up debris.
Stunning.
 

bennett4362

deployment sucks
squorch2 said:
our reporters were told that it would be pointless to send military personnel down to the beach to pick up debris.
did they seriously say that??

i know lots of military personnel that picked up lots of debris on the beach after ivan!
 

snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
could be wrong, but i believe that martial law has already been declared in nola.
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
squorch2 said:
Also, I hope it's not the role described in a Sun-Times editorial

"On Wednesday reporters listening to horrific stories of death and survival at the Biloxi Junior High School shelter looked north across Irish Hill Road and saw Air Force personnel playing basketball and performing calisthenics. When asked why these young men were not being used to help in the recovery effort, our reporters were told that it would be pointless to send military personnel down to the beach to pick up debris. "

:Stunning.

Because I'm sure those guys have nothing to do other than PT and play basketball. What's their MOS (or whatever they call it in the USAF)? Anyone know what those guys were doing the previous 12 hours? Were they aircrews getting a little downtime before their next hop? Who did the reporters ask? Lots of holes in this story, I smell muckraking. Typical.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
It's not a story. It's an editorial. And I'm sure that the Sun-Times is just stirring **** up, just like the rest of the liberal media. The liberal media in Mississippi.
 

mules83

getting salty...
pilot
Just saw this on navy.mil under status of the navy. It shows the task force heading to the affected areas.

Joint Task Force Katrina - Gulf of Mexico
USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) - Atlantic Ocean
USS Bataan (LHD 5) - Gulf of Mexico
USS Iwo Jima (LHD 7) - Atlantic Ocean
USS Shreveport (LPD 12) - Atlantic Ocean
USS Whidbey Island (LSD 41) - Atlantic Ocean
USS Tortuga (LSD 46) - Atlantic Ocean
USS Grapple (ARS 53) - Atlantic Ocean
USS Swift (HSV 2) - Gulf of Mexico
USNS Arctic (T-AOE 8) - Gulf of Mexico
USNS Algol (T-AKR 287) - Gulf of Mexico
USNS Bellatrix (T-AKR 288) - Gulf of Mexico
USNS Altair (T-AKR 291) - Gulf of Mexico
USNS Bob Hope (T-AKR 300) - Gulf of Mexico
USNS Pililaau (T-AKR 304) - Gulf of Mexico
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Squorch, I should have clarified, I wasn't aiming that at you, just the haphazard report. Ridiculous.
 

snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
mules83 said:
Just saw this on navy.mil under status of the navy. It shows the task force heading to the affected areas.....


even though they don't have a choice, that's awesome guys. the NG troops in the affected areas are deployed for the war-- the storm victims need all the help and patience that they can get right now.
 

jamnww

Hangar Four
pilot
snow85 said:
could be wrong, but i believe that martial law has already been declared in nola.

No, that was a misreported item.

zab1001 said:
Lots of holes in this story, I smell muckraking. Typical.

I agree completely...

snow85 said:
even though they don't have a choice, that's awesome guys. the NG troops in the affected areas are deployed for the war

Actually only about 6,000 (edited: 3:23pm - this number is actually inaccurate, I was mistaken but it amounts to 40% of the state NG) NG from that state are in Iraq according to the reports I have seen. That leaves about 60% of the states NG available for relief efforts.
 

snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
jamnww said:
No, that was a misreported item.



I agree completely...



Actually only about 6,000 NG from that state are in Iraq according to the reports I have seen. That leaves about 60% of the states NG available for relief efforts.

i was talking about the NG from the NOLA area, specifically. i'd like to see where martial law has NOT been declared, as it has been reported everywhere.
 

jamnww

Hangar Four
pilot
snow85 said:
i was talking about the NG from the NOLA area, specifically. i'd like to see where martial law has NOT been declared, as it has been reported everywhere.

Using a simple google search...

30 Aug

"The Louisiana Attorney General's office insisted late Tuesday that martial law is not recognized in Louisiana state law" - Jurist Legal News

Today - "Blum emphasized that the Guard is not enforcing martial law, as some media outlets have reported" - Army Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum

The mention of martial law come from the Mayor of N.O. who uses the phrase to indicate a set of emergency powers that in some ways mimics martial law, however technically it is not martial law.

~~~

As for the NG issue...what do you think NG IN N.O. would be able to do? All of their assets would have been destroyed anyway, just as the P.D. was...
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
There's nothing technical about it. Martial law means the military is in charge of the city/area. Civil laws have not been suspended, as per the Army Times article.
 

snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
jamnww said:
As for the NG issue...what do you think NG IN N.O. would be able to do? All of their assets would have been destroyed anyway, just as the P.D. was...

sooo.... the military would have... left its assets in place? for a cat 5 storm?

like it left the jets and sna's in p-cola a while back? did the af stay in ms?


edit: seriously, i'm trying to figure out where you're coming from with that comment.
 
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