Role of the Military after Katrina

[jamnww]

sooo.... the military would have... left its assets in place? for a cat 5 storm?
like it left the jets and sna's in p-cola a while back? did the af stay in ms?
edit: seriously, i'm trying to figure out where you're coming from with that comment.

There is a difference between the AF moving jets from their bases in MS or the Navy aircraft leaving Pcola and a NG unit moving HMMVs and heavy trucks out of the area. Besides the gear that they need most right now are people on the ground with rifles which would not have been moved in any faster than they have if the unit was from N.O. or northern LA. IF they had stayed in N.O. as the police did then they would have suffered similar losses in personnel and equipment. It is interesting to note that some PD units are down to 40% strength.

So are you say that a NG unit with limited resources would have evac'd but people living in N.O. wouldn't? Besides, you still have the situation of the road congestion immediately before the hurricane which would have reduced the ability to move the HMMVs out.

 

[codtanker]

NAS New Orleans

My unit was one of many that was bringing supplies last night into NAS New Orleans. We landed with 60,000+ MREs on a couple of jets and also downloaded some fuel for local operations.

The scene was crazy on the flight line. There was a minimum of 8-10 C130s on the deck at any given time unloading water and armed personnel to try and help.

I won't even get into the amount of helicopters that were flying throughout the 3 hrs while we were on deck. We started our takeoff roll after waiting 45 minutes for sequencing with a Frog right over the top of us while he was on short final for the perpindicular.

I've included just a sample of the pics I took, most should not be released but we didn't have much of a chance to view the flooded areas because we were just trying to keep from running into somebody.

 

[snow85]

There is a difference between the AF moving jets from their bases in MS or the Navy aircraft leaving Pcola and a NG unit moving HMMVs and heavy trucks out of the area. Besides the gear that they need most right now are people on the ground with rifles which would not have been moved in any faster than they have if the unit was from N.O. or northern LA. IF they had stayed in N.O. as the police did then they would have suffered similar losses in personnel and equipment. It is interesting to note that some PD units are down to 40% strength.

So are you say that a NG unit with limited resources would have evac'd but people living in N.O. wouldn't? Besides, you still have the situation of the road congestion immediately before the hurricane which would have reduced the ability to move the HMMVs out.

what? now you're comparing the military evacuating with the people evacuating? how can you do that? the military will move what it can, when it can.

what i'm saying is that you can move mil resources out of harm's way, and then bring them back to help. the eastbound side of I-10 was closed during the evac to not allow anyone into the city. why not move mil resources outbound on that side of the interstate? that's where the congestion was-- only one side of the road was open. open the other to the mil, and that solves your problem of being able to move assets out that you'll need immediatedly following the disaster. your hmmv is going to do a lot better in the water than my vehicle. it would have been faster to move them to safety and then immediately move them back. again, the problem wasn't the storm. it was the break in the levy. (at least in N.O.)

the PD units are down because those who have sworn to protect and serve are turning in their badges.

 

[codtanker]

Here's a great idea, open both sides of the interstate to everybody. I believe that Interstate 95 opens both sides of the interstate for North only during evacuations of Mobile and Pensacola.

If the infastructure was good as it looked like it was, then they should have parked the Hummers and other essential equipment inside the aircraft hangers rather then POVs to have the equipment ready to roll within hours of the storm. There are a lot of things that were probably done right, but will that outweigh the many things that were done wrong?

Fly the aircraft (which most were) out of the area but leave equipment that can get the airfield up and running as quickly as possible (in the hangars) to start bringing in supplies and personnel. One of the rampers last night said they were back on the flight line within 4hrs after the storm passing. No need for Strike Eagles and Hornets to be on the airfield.

my .02

 

[PSno23]

what i'm saying is that you can move mil resources out of harm's way, and then bring them back to help. the eastbound side of I-10 was closed during the evac to not allow anyone into the city. why not move mil resources outbound on that side of the interstate? that's where the congestion was-- only one side of the road was open. open the other to the mil, and that solves your problem of being able to move assets out that you'll need immediatedly following the disaster.

And doing that would've put the NG assets right in the eye of the hurricane - worse off than they would have been had they stayed in the city. Furthermore, using hindsight, they wouldn't have been able to get back into the city. Why? Because I-10 over Lake Pontchartrain pretty much doesn't exist anymore, so there would've been no way back in. Staging them in a safe place away from the storm was the best possible solution.

I'm not going to get into the efforts to get them into the city after the devastation, though.

 

[Road Program]

Been watching the news and have already started to hear people claim that the delay in relief is Bush's fault and that the entire military should be mobilized immediately to assist. The question though is what role should the military take in the relief effort?

I think it's nice that the military is helping out. Is it required of the military? I honestly don't know the laws on that. What I do know is that the military is primarily responsible for upholding the national interests of the United States, both here and abroad. You can go on and on about what our national interest are and the legal interpreation of what the intent of the wording of the documents that govern the military.

In a nutshell, no, I don't think the military should be held responsible for relief efforts any more than any major corparation should. It's nice but I'm getting tired of hearing on the news people bad-mouthing the military and the COC for their response or lack thereof. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[squeeze]

snow and jamn if you two clowns can't keep your pissing match to pms and it spill into multiple threads, youll both be watching from the bleachers for a day or so.

 

[codtanker]

Should the military be responsible for relief, maybe not? HOWEVER, take a poll and find out how many of us would leave our family and loved ones in a heartbeat to help with whatever we could. I think you find overwhelming that the military personnel are more willing then many others to offer our help and do it without asking why???

Do the laws matter that much after this disaster? We are talking about infants, elderly and the sick dying because you can't even get them water. Food can come later no matter what the victims believe. That has been proven many times on the high seas with people surviving with nothing.

If this hasn't hit home yet too many of you then it may never. Does it really matter in the end who is responsible, maybe, but now is not the time to worry about that. I wouldn't get to sensitive to what a few people say on the television about the military and their reaction to this problem. They don't see the massive effort being moved to places like Pensacola and Meridian, not to mention the ships that have or will be arriving offshore.

I finally heard last night on Fox News by Greta an answer to a nagging question for most people. When asked if things were getting better in all of Houston, her response was right on. Basically it came down to when you’re in the middle of a situation like this all that matters is the 1,000 feet around you. You don't have the perspective of what might be happening just down the road. When they interview someone coming out of the water soaking wet and they say they need help, we know that, but when they add that the government is not helping just let it slide off the shoulder. They don't know what is going on to help. Could we have done better, yes, will we do better the next time. I sure think we will.

Example of the BS. It made me sick to my stomach when my OG (while on deck at NAS New Orleans) was asked if we could provide medivac flights if required. His response, "we can as long as we are tasked through the proper channels." Too many times we worry about who is going to pay for it rather then doing it and figuring out where the money is going to come from after the fact. No I don't believe you can have that philosophy on a day to day basis, but this is not the normal day to day basis right now is it?

 

[jamnww]

snow and jamn if you two clowns can't keep your pissing match to pms and it spill into multiple threads, youll both be watching from the bleachers for a day or so.

Too late there Squeeze we already moved it there...

Should the military be responsible for relief, maybe not? HOWEVER, take a poll and find out how many of us would leave our family and loved ones in a heartbeat to help with whatever we could. I think you find overwhelming that the military personnel are more willing then many others to offer our help and do it without asking why???

I was referring to specifically what were the legal restrictions and what not but thanks for the thoughts.

 

[codtanker]

Yea, I knew what you were referring to, my point is also more to point as stated later in the post on what kind of red tape we have to go through in today's military to just get the basic help needed.

No offense taken on my part.

 

[jamnww]

Yea, I knew what you were referring to, my point is also more to point as stated later in the post on what kind of red tape we have to go through in today's military to just get the basic help needed.

No offense taken on my part.

No worries...I thought that was interesting later in your post about the red tape. Don't you just love lawyers...