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Scariest Day/Night Flying

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
1988 in the Persian Gulf being chased by an Iranian F4 who thought we were Iraqi and ignored all calls on guard from us, the AWACS and the crusier in the area. We had to climb to get over the top of the USS R K Turner. He was only about 5 miles off our tail as we cleared the Turner and she lit him up with every fire control radar she had while having missiles on the rails. That turned him around and ended the chase. Good thing the Iranians did not have any reliable air-to-air missile and was going for the guns kill or he would probably have gotten us.

TIT was exceeded on all engines, inspections were required and engines were changed. But that War Pig did 420 indicated.....

I don't know about not having reliable AAMs. According to ACIG and Tom Cooper, plenty of Iraqis soaked up US made Sidewinders and Sparrows from F-4 and F-14s, but being that low was a smart tactic to make it extremely hard for the Phantom to target you with one. I'd give a lot of credit to your pilot for saving you!
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I don't know about not having reliable AAMs. According to ACIG and Tom Cooper, plenty of Iraqis soaked up US made Sidewinders and Sparrows from F-4 and F-14s, but being that low was a smart tactic to make it extremely hard for the Phantom to target you with one. I'd give a lot of credit to your pilot for saving you!
I watched a lot of Iranian / Iraqi air-to-air fights from fairly close range (and did a few SARs on the losers). And they seem to be gun fights as they were close together. Sidewinders maybe but from the training they gave us at Nellis before we deployed, I don't think they could have kept lock for Sparrows. Plus AWACs or the ships never really got any radar on missiles (which they claimed they could for Sparrow or Phoenix - true? I don't know).

We also met quite a few Iraq pilots because if they were damaged or low on gas, they would divert into Dhahran were we were. We usually had dinner with them. They also claimed the Iranian missiles were no good.

This incident was in mid-1988 so the war had been going on for a while. Maybe the Iranians had used up their supply of reliable missiles.

I actually give most credit to saving our butts to our IFO and IFT who sat glued to the aft observer windows, kept the F4 in sight and called our turns. Also, the PPC needed a little encouragement from the 2P, FE and myself to firewall the power levers and go so low. He kept saying that the F4 was just trying to scare us.....which he basically did!

We actually trained for this on the Nellis ranges before deploying. We did a bunch of fights against various fighters and that was the lesson learned. Hit the deck to try and deny them the vertical. Out turn them and make them try strafing passes. Run them out of gas. After a few flights, we got pretty good at avoiding gun shots.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
The one thing that always struck me about the envelope charts is that they held all variables constant, though. The Goshawk could do the same on paper (don't have a Prowler NATOPS so I defer to Brett there and pray that that includes my 1.2 second delay:D), but it was my impression that AOB/sink rate/pitch attitude/etc. could pile up fast and leave you up the proverbial creek.

I'm new to the forum - well kinda new - used to post a few years ago. Scarriest flight so far. Flying an IR route up here in the Northwest through the Cascade Mountains. Overtop one of the turn points I get a light (filter light for you prowler guys) that tells me a) one of my fuel filters is potentially clogged with contaminated fule and b) i need to land as soon as possible. In a matter of seconds the engine quits. I climb up off the route on the remaining engine and fly as fast as the pig would go on the remaining engine towards Fairchild AFB. Dirty up at about three miles from the runway and land "uneventfully". After touchdown, while rolling down the runway at approx 100 kts the second engine quits. ECMO 1 looks at me with a "WTF did you just do" look on his face. I'm moving the throttle back and forth showing him that it should be working. After using most of the bazillion feet of runway to slow I pull the parking brake and come to an abrubt stop.

Now about ejection envelopes - had that engine checked itself out ten to fifteen seconds earlier I (as the pilot, and not a skinny one at that) would have, according to the charts, been well outside of a safe envelope. IAS was about 140 with a 6-700 fpm ROD. I would have hit the ground in my seat.

That brings me to my next point: there is no need to fly a single engine approach 'on speed' unless its your NATOPS check or you're trying to get it aboard the boat. Wanna keep some knots of the horizontal stab to give you enough authority to zero out your VSI if/when the second engine quits and you need to jump out.

Lets see, that flight and every night trap, those are the scarriest :icon_wink

Remind me again why the SINGLE ENGINE JSF is such a great idea?
 

lowflier03

So no $hit there I was
pilot
That brings me to my next point: there is no need to fly a single engine approach 'on speed' unless its your NATOPS check or you're trying to get it aboard the boat. Wanna keep some knots of the horizontal stab to give you enough authority to zero out your VSI if/when the second engine quits and you need to jump out.


Reminds me of a helo pilot I know of. He always claimed that if he had to shoot a single engine approach anywhere, he would bring it in low and fast. That way instead of needing a crapload of power at the bottom to arrest his descent, he could just bottom the collective and let the Nr build so he could cushion the landing like an auto, but with some power still available. He would even practice that profile when simulating single engine. Worked every time.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
Doesn't work so hot in a heavier bird, coming aboard single engine..
Concur... Plus, don't forget those magical HV diagrams that tell us the opposite. When I went single engine in Iraq, I kept it at 70kts because I was BARELY single engine capable. I did keep the airspeed up on short final and did a running landing, touching down about 45kts.
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
My scariest night was the night I thought I was gonna miss midrats due to the usual number of bolters by the jet guys.

LOL....that reminds me of my worst night "in the barrel". In 1982, Admiral Tuttle had USS America way up North of the UK provoking the Soviets so "Operational Necessity" dictated that we flew in very dark, very heavy seas with water coming over the bow. Scary enough in the day when they launch you as bow buries itself and spray shoorts up...supposedly the bow will be up by the time you reach the end of the cat. Took a lot of faith during the day and was downright spooky at night launching into a black abyss with the fluid in your head going every which way.

Our launch got off OK and we did our mission and dreams of Midrats filled our heads as we settled into the Marshall stack awaiting our push time. First down the chute the sacrificial A-7s that could seemingly fly forever. Toms came next. As expected, the A-7s were waved off, but we were surprised that all the Tomcats were ultimately waved off with no explanation. The last A-7 of the prior launch was being positioned on Cat 4 when a freak swell caused the launch bar to get wedged out of position so it was stuck fast unable to launch or be taxi forward and out of the way. The LA was fouled big time. Waveoff after waveoff ensued and now way too many aircraft were in the penalty box after pushing with more arriving every minute. CATCC was repeatedly asking for fuel states and began sending aircraft to tank.

The recovery tanker started hawking the deck knowing it wouldn't be long before his services were needed and an Alert Tanker was launched as we were Blue Water Ops with no option other than to land on Mother.
They finally used a crash and salvage saw to cut the launch bar off and got the LA clear. But instead of "Roger, ball" then we heard calls of "Clara" and LSOs trying to talk aircraft down before waving them off while we entered the "penalty box" and watched the lights of our fellow hapless souls as they moved around awaiting to be slotted back into the landing pattern. Only one Tomcat pilot was able to land and we heard the LSO ask when he picked up the ball. We heard an ominous "I never had a ball". Several jets were declaring emergencies of one kind or the other. Everyone was earning their pay this night. We were even more mystified at that point as to why the there was no ball, but even more pressing was the fact that we were now in serious need of more petrol.

We finally were told to head for "Texaco" and switched freqs and checked in with the KA-6D tanker. It was the A-6 skipper and not only was he a legendary warrior, he was the guy you wanted passing gas on a dark and stormy night and did take on tanker hops that required varsity hands. I said a silent prayer of thanks as he showed up right in front of us. What a guy! However, the basket was pretty beat up and not fully lit and moving around. Trying to plug was an ordeal and before long, both low fuel lights were illuminated. For the first time, I considered the prospect of an ejection over frigid seas with no chance of being picked up due to sea state and fact helo couldn't launch under the prevailing conditions. We had wetsuits in that time period and they were toasty warm most of the time, but I felt ice cold beads of sweat going down my back. This couldn't be happening. I stared at the glowing low fuel lights and remembered the RAG lecture that said how inaccurate the gauges were when the lights came on. We weren't really sure how much time we had before we ran out of "go-juice". I wasn't worried about missing Midrats any more and I didn't want to leave the comfort (relative) of the cockpit. After endless stabs at the basket we finally got it and the totalizer finally started climbing slowly as fuel began flowing into our thirsty Tomcat. We didn't get much as others were also in need, but it was enough to extinguish the low fuel lights and give us a few more shots at the deck. When we checked back in, we found that aircraft were finally being recovered despite a few bolters.

Because the recovery had taken so long, the LSOs barely had enough time to compose themselves before the next recovery started, which turned out to be a 4.0 event. Everyone landed on the first pass without any bolters or waveoffs. Amazing. Our cycle was plagued by the stuck A-7 and compounded by its wing obscuring the ball, which was not evident to the LSOs but really apparent to those trying to call the ball and seeing nothing. I never had a closer call or saw two low fuel lights again...well, maybe once, but it wasn't at sea.
 

Old NFO

Registered User
None
The about VFR brought another "set" of instances to mind- VFR Departures out of NAS JAX, because we would routinely chop VFR as soon as we cleared the coast to go operational... We took off from JAX, got the old climb and maintain 1200' proceed 090 to XXX... I'm looking North and see a Piper Cherokee has us boresighted 1100 constant bearing decreasing range, I call up flight and tell him to break right, the Nav SCREAMS- Break Left Traffic 0100 level, so flight sucks back on the stick and up we go... one of the aft observers was able to keep an eye on the 1 o'clock traffic, and he reported the two airplanes almost hit directly underneath us... ATC claimed they never saw the two birds and bitched at us for breaking the assigned altitude. I got ticked and told them we would file a NMAC report when we returned and I wanted the radar tapes held...

Later in became a standing joke at Jax about transiting Indian Country between NAS and the beaches... More than one crew got the S**T scared out of them in that 20 mile space because of all the VFR traffic-
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The about VFR brought another "set" of instances to mind- VFR Departures out of NAS JAX, because we would routinely chop VFR as soon as we cleared the coast to go operational... We took off from JAX, got the old climb and maintain 1200' proceed 090 to XXX... I'm looking North and see a Piper Cherokee has us boresighted 1100 constant bearing decreasing range, I call up flight and tell him to break right, the Nav SCREAMS- Break Left Traffic 0100 level, so flight sucks back on the stick and up we go... one of the aft observers was able to keep an eye on the 1 o'clock traffic, and he reported the two airplanes almost hit directly underneath us... ATC claimed they never saw the two birds and bitched at us for breaking the assigned altitude. I got ticked and told them we would file a NMAC report when we returned and I wanted the radar tapes held...

Later in became a standing joke at Jax about transiting Indian Country between NAS and the beaches... More than one crew got the S**T scared out of them in that 20 mile space because of all the VFR traffic-

Hard to believe that a big old, smoking P-3 would go unseen like that. GA scares me. :eek:

Brett
 

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
Yeah...but they are a neutral color...I could see how you might miss one...:rolleyes:

Cruces gave me some interesting stories...but I've gotten beaten up for the GA arguments before...
 

plc67

Active Member
pilot
Back in the Fall/Winter of 1971 I was a student at HML 267 when we were assigned a night flight. The night turned out to be overcast and drizzly. I thought it would be a good night for some instrument work but the instructor decided against it and, for lack of better words, we just tooled around the area. I don't know about now, but in the E model Huey we set the radar altimeter at 75 feet so if you had an engine failure when the light came on you started your flare. I don't know where we were but as we're milling around I saw the radar altimeter start off its peg and the light came on and then the needle quickly unwound. The instructor and I looked as each other and he said "lets go back."

To continue we never saw the terrain we nearly nailed,CFIT it would be called now, but in later years flying non instrument capable helos(Enstrom F28Cs and OH6s) I made sure I had better SA in marginal RW VFR. I still nearly nailed power lines a couple of times flying in snowy conditions in the Philipsburg,Pa. area flying out to strip mines.
 

Oh-58Ddriver

Scouts Out!
None
Contributor
couple months ago...somewhere in northern Iraq...flying about 20 feet off the ground at night under NVGs, hunting around for some bad guys that were hiding. Right out my door a guy sits up and points an RPG directly at the aircraft - he was no farther than 30 feet from where I was sitting. I returned fire with M4 out the door in suppression as we broke away. That is the only time I have ever felt fear in an aircraft.

10 minutes later we killed him. Fear subsided...
 

Herc_Dude

I believe nicotine + caffeine = protein
pilot
Contributor
couple months ago...somewhere in northern Iraq...flying about 20 feet off the ground at night under NVGs, hunting around for some bad guys that were hiding. Right out my door a guy sits up and points an RPG directly at the aircraft - he was no farther than 30 feet from where I was sitting. I returned fire with M4 out the door in suppression as we broke away. That is the only time I have ever felt fear in an aircraft.

10 minutes later we killed him. Fear subsided...

Talk about pucker factor ... intense
 

Old NFO

Registered User
None
couple months ago...somewhere in northern Iraq...flying about 20 feet off the ground at night under NVGs, hunting around for some bad guys that were hiding. Right out my door a guy sits up and points an RPG directly at the aircraft - he was no farther than 30 feet from where I was sitting. I returned fire with M4 out the door in suppression as we broke away. That is the only time I have ever felt fear in an aircraft.

10 minutes later we killed him. Fear subsided...
THAT is a wake up call....
 

vanity

Zoomie
Another GA story for you all, this happened February of last year in a chicago suburb. I was getting close to finishing my ppl in a piper warrior and had about 30 hours at the time. My instructor and I were going to do some hood work and other junk in preparation for the flight test(blah blah).

Anyway... the preflight and run-up were normal, but shortly after takeoff at about 500 AGL the engine decides it doesn't want to work anymore. My instructor grabbed the controls while I switched the tanks, put the fuel pump on, and put the carburetor heat on. Nothing worked to restart the engine, so with no more runway straight ahead and warehouses everywhere my instructor lines us up over a freeway. We didn't know it at the time but our wing span was bigger than the distance between the light poles on either side of the freeway. As we came down our right wing hit a pole taking the wing off and flipping us upside down. Still in the air, our left wing (now on the right side since were inverted) hits another light pole taking that wing off as well. We hit the highway upside down and skidded a good 50 feet down the highway before stopping. I checked to make sure all my limbs were still attached as I hung upside down by the seat belt. I unbuckled myself and crawled through the backseat of the plane to kick the jammed door open. After I climbed out I pulled my instructor out with the help of a few motorists and waited for the ambulances.

The part that amazes me is that we never caught on fire with two full tanks of fuel.

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