Scooters Forever (A-4 Skyhawk Tribute Thread)

[rrpilot]

How does the bridle catcher on the bow of the ship work? Are the bridles directed into the nets, or it is simply located where most of them go?

Here's a post from Renegade One from an earlier thread that explains it somewhat...

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showpost.php?p=331397&postcount=5

Thread: Allied jets conducting flight ops on USN CV's
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06-03-2007, 08:46 PM #5 Renegade One
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We did the same on NIMITZ coming around South America in 2001. Did T&G's with Brazilian A-4's. They had a USN LSO on exchange duty who flew out to the ship via COD before the T&G's began. We also stripped the wires...T&G's only. But they looked pretty darned good. Materially and as ball flyers. Their A-4's, too, needed the old-style bridle launch technique. The bridles weren't "expended"...recovered by what I recall was known as the VanZelm retraction gear or something similar...basically tied with ropes to two shuttles that paralleled the cat track. Flopped over onto the bridle arrestor tracks (those two long extensions of the cats you see on earlier (pre-1990) CV bows), and just got "retracted" back to the cat spot area. Different lengths/types for each type of aircraft. All of our aircraft now, obviously, use the nose-tow mechanism, and the bridle-launch gear has all been removed, I suppose. So...it's a fairly routine op to offer at least T&G's to allied naval aviaton types who fly CV-capable aircraft and have had the benefit of USN-like CQ training and use similar procedures. Just my experience.
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[rrpilot]

This may help as well..

 

[BusyBee604]

A-4 Bridles

How does the bridle catcher on the bow of the ship work? Are the bridles directed into the nets, or it is simply located where most of them go?

The A-4 bridle is attached to two retriever cables running along each side of the catapult track by a pair of ropes. As the aircraft reaches flying speed, the bridle falls off & slams, expending it's energy against the bridle arrestor (the large wedge shaped steel ramp extending forward of the bow). The bridle retriever then drags the bridle back to the cat launch position to be hooked up to the next plane to be launched (if an A-4, as each type A/C has it's own type bridle).
A-4 bridles have a limit of 100 launches, so on the 100th [bridle] shot, the bridle is disconnected from the retriever mechanism & goes flying with a great splash to Davy Jone's Locker!
There have been rare instances of "bridle-slap" on max-weight cat shots, when the bridle bounces up off the arrestor & nicks or damages the underside of the wing. If it punctures a hole, then the aircraft can slowly lose all wing fuel.
BzB

 

[rrpilot]

Anybody want to buy one ... Here is one some guy started restoring but couldn't finish.

Ebay Link

Better hurry auction ends soon.

ghost

This type of thing always gets me wondering, What IF I could afford it?

I'm aware that some types required very specialized training and skills to fly, what about the Skyhawk?

Maybe some private pilot like me (except wealthier) buys one with an eye towards the airshow circuit, as far as I know all the people currently doing this have military aviation backgrounds.
Could a guy like me( private pilot, approx. 350hrs Cessna Skyhawk time, about 150hrs Citabria taildragger time) reasonably learn to fly this plane safely? or would it be just a matter of time until I killed myself in it, of course for this hypothetical we will obviate the cost of maintaining and fueling the plane since my railroad pay will never be that good, and I wouldn't have to learn any tactical procedures to 'fight' the airplane, just operate it safely...

 

[scoolbubba]

There are plenty of rich ass dudes who've never been on the line buying warbirds, L-39s, Starfighters, Migs etc. Any monkey with enough gold bricks falling out his butt can learn to fly; as far as learning to fly the A-4 in particular, I have no expertise on this matter and will defer to experts, but there've been plenty of 150 hour wonders learned how to land on the boat in it.

 

[A4sForever]

.... the A-4 in particular, I have no expertise on this matter and will defer to experts, but there've been plenty of 150 hour wonders learned how to land on the boat in it.

Fuckin' A, younger Bruddah ... and that's why the A-4 is such a GREAT bird. I had been out of it for 5+ years when I went back to the BOAT w/ @ 20 hours 'refresh' ... and I got 4.0 in 10 passes ... 1/2 of /em 'no comment'.

Plus ... I think we had > 200 hours in the pre-simulator days ... @ 226 total from VT-1 to Wings of Gold seems to strike a memory cord, but I haven't looked it up.

 

[Raptor2216]

There are plenty of rich ass dudes who've never been on the line buying warbirds, L-39s, Starfighters, Migs etc. Any monkey with enough gold bricks falling out his butt can learn to fly; as far as learning to fly the A-4 in particular, I have no expertise on this matter and will defer to experts, but there've been plenty of 150 hour wonders learned how to land on the boat in it.

Maybe i'm just too cautious but 200hrs in a puddle jumper does not compare to even 20-30 hrs in a small jet. The handling is something you have to get used to and then you have the other obvious factor, speed. Learning to fly the T-45 after the T-34 was a challenge in itself. It was difficult to just keep the thing wings level and trimmed during the first few flights. The goosehawk is quite a step up from the T-34 and the T-34 is a few steps above the cessna's, so I can only imagine how crazy that first ride in the A-4 would be with nothing but puddle jumper time under your belt. I'm not saying it can't be done but it would require a good bit of training in a 2 seater first.

 

[Catmando]

F...

Plus ... I think we had > 200 hours in the pre-simulator days ... @ 226 total from VT-1 to Wings of Gold seems to strike a memory cord, but I haven't looked it up.

Just checked:

Had 143 hours total time for my initial T-2B CQ.
Had 239 hours total time for my TF-9J CQ.
Had 246 hours total time for my Wings of Gold.

Unfortunately, although I had many hours in the A-4, I never got to CQ in it until I had 2,200 hours total time.

But it was well worth the wait! What fun! And what a great aircraft!

 

[A4sForever]

Just checked:
.... Had 246 hours total time for my Wings of Gold.

That's probably same-o, same-o as an equivalent ... as I didn't CQ in Basic Jet @ VT-4 ...

They said I was too good and didn't need it ...

 

[Catmando]

....
They said I was too good and didn't need it ...

They said I was so good, I needed to do it ... just to set the standard!

[Interogative... were you ahead or behind me? (and no jokes, thank you, from the lurking and always ready to ponce, RR Peanut Gallery!) ]

 

[zipmartin]

From the backseat of a VT-22 TA-4J approaching the "Lex" somewhere in the Gulf (of Mehico). IUT "Griz" was in the frontseat getting his lead-safe qual. I didn't think he'd get called to "Charlie" for a trap! We were just supposed to lead three studs out and circle overhead! The next day I was solo lead-safe, the sun was setting, the last two studs were trapping to spend the night and resume in the morning when I was called to "Charlie". Noooooo! Not a night spent on the Lex! Only the LSO's had to spend a night on the Lex. They wanted a lead-safe aboard so they could launch at first-light the next morning and I got chosen. I almost went NORDO and went home, but call-to-duty prevailed and I joined the LSO's for a night of popcorn-munching movie-watching, and "frivolity" in the LSO bunkroom.

 

[A4sForever]

From the backseat of a VT-22 TA-4J approaching the "Lex" somewhere in the Gulf (of Mehico).... I joined the LSO's for a night of popcorn-munching movie-watching, and "frivolity" in the LSO bunkroom.

GREAT action pix, Zip ... ol' school.

An RON on the LEX when she was the TRACOM deck??? It sucked very, very badly as she was getting long in the tooth and wasn't really any longer 'equipped' for Aviators and overnights ... poor accommodations, poor food, grotesque heads, little/no TV or movies ...

BUT: she had LOTS OF SUN, LOTS OF WIND, LOTS OF PUFFY WHITE CLOUDS, AND LOTS OF STUDS !!!

 

[Uncle Fester]

... poor accommodations, poor food, grotesque heads, little/no TV or movies ...

How come 'dat, Village Elders? Lack of money, lack of give-a-shit, some combination thereof?

I still say JFK would have made a perfect AVT. Other than steam leaking everywhere and a deck that seemed designed to shed nonskid instantly, great boat.

 

[A4sForever]

How come 'dat, Village Elders? Lack of money, lack of give-a-shit, some combination thereof? ...

One man's opinion -- and mine is the only one that counts -- it wasn't MONEY, per se, even though it was Gerald Ford & Jimmy Carter's Navy ... but rather the fact that the LEX wasn't a 'real carrier' anymore -- she was old ... tired ... burned out ... and usually did only a few days at sea at a time out of PCOLA to cover the Texas TRARONS ... very few non-ship's company Aviators (think the COD guys only, to be precise) RON'ed... and as a result, the emphasis on 'Air Wing' related 'stuff' went wa-a-a-a-a-a-ay down ...

Staterooms ... chow ... heads ... everything went downhill, unless anyone bitched about it.

So I did ....

Operational example:
They didn't fix the PLAT for @ 2 months ... I was training some new LSO's and needed/wanted it ... I wrote it up ... nothing happened. Sooooooooo ... the next time I was aboard and wavin' and the PLAT still wasn't fixed -- I called the AVBosun' over and said:
'WTF, over ??? WHY ISN'T THE GODDAMN PLAT FIXED ??? '

He farted & ran off and called his Chief ... the Chief came over in flight deck jersey & khaki's and was going to start in on me -- but I put my hand up (Indian style) and said: 'WAIT A MINUTE. Who am I talkin' to ... ??" He said "Chief so-and so" ... I said: Well, here's the deal, Chief ... my name's LT A4s & I wrote your fuckin' PLAT up a month ago and nothing's been done, as any fool can plainly see -- so what the fuck is going on in YOUR Air Dept ???

The Chief farted & ran off and @ 5 minutes later his Division O came running over and said: 'Why are you raggin' on my Chief and giving my Airmen a hard time??'

I said: If they think THAT was 'raggin' ... IF THEY THINK THAT WAS A 'HARD TIME' ... then they haven't seen ANYTHING YET -- WHY IN THE FUCK IS THE PLAT STILL NOT FIXED?? I WROTE IT UP A MONTH AGO ... ??? AND I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR KIDS AND CRY-BABIES OUT HERE -- IF THEY THINK THEY GOT 'YELLED AT' ... well then, they haven't seen anything yet. FIX THE FUCKING PLAT!!!

The Division O farted & ran off and @ 5 minutes later -- the BOSS called down and said: "Is this LT A4s? We'll get the PLAT fixed right now ... quit pickin' on my people, O.K. ???"

I said: "ROGER THAT, BOSS" ... and turned around in my orange zoom-bag and gave him a BIG GRIN & a BIG THUMB'S UP.

The PLAT got fixed @ 30 minutes later ...

Ain't this a GREAT country?? And a GREAT Navy ... ???

 

[brownshoe]

Lex

Zip, you and A4s think you had it bad!? How 'bout all those blackshoe enlisted guys chained to oars below trying to keep twenty knots of wind across the flight deck? Not to mention all us brownshoes dodging the studs and students tryin' to kill us up on the flight deck.

All kidding aside, what A4s said... an old and very tired boat.

Steve

(Zip, thanks for the great photo... Memory Lane!)