Scooters Forever (A-4 Skyhawk Tribute Thread)

[Ronl]

BZB,

Thanks for your comments. Yes, the A-4 was an amazing aircraft. Its long service live in the USN and USMC is a testament to that . Regarding the canopy strap and the A-4M, I can only think that maybe the hinges in the A-4M were stronger and the Marines didn't feel they needed to use it. Or, they didn't want to use a "low technology" 60's era strap in their newer technology aircraft. Just a thought.

Finally, in regard to my earlier question, in your 16 years of A-4 experience, did you try to avoid stepping on the seat when getting in and out of the cockpit?

Thanks.

Ron

Well Ron, gotta say I flew the Scooter for 16 years...A-4B/C/E/Fs and we always used the strap after it was incorporated in the early '60s. I haven't a clue as to why they wouldn't/didn't utilize them. Even the Marine A-4M dudes couldn't say why. BTW, the TA-4F/Js had a hydraulic canopy, hence no strap required.

Actually, the A-4 had many interesting, innovative & unique systems/features for its time. The canopy strap was NOT one of them!
BzB

 

[MIDNJAC]

Never flown an A-4, but in both ejection seat aircraft I've flown (T-45, F/A-18), not stepping on the seat is standard practice. I always assumed it was to not soil or wear out the seat cushion, but there could be a better reason for it that I am unaware of

 

[helolumpy]

If C/B panels means (circuit breakers??), I don't remember any circuit breakers in the Scooters I flew. I may be getting senile, however!
BzB,View attachment 10771
lacking 'total recall'

Did you guys have a fuse box???

 

[BusyBee604]

Finally, in regard to my earlier question, in your 16 years of A-4 experience, did you try to avoid stepping on the seat when getting in and out of the cockpit?

Although many others previously stated that they routinely stepped on the seat...I always managed to get in OK while avoiding stepping on the seat with my dirty, somtimes greasy flight boots. I also remember being told at one point, that oil & O2 did not like each other (there was a small O2 bottle in the seat pan).

Another "better reason" MIDNJAC mentions may be that some of the softer emergency survival items (smoke signals, flares, mirror, waterbags etc.) stowed in the seat pan, might be squished/damaged by the big, bumbling Hawk Driver clodhoppers back in the day!

Edit: HeloLumpy, the bird had a fuse panel, but not serviceable from cockpit by Pilot.
BzB

 

[brownshoe]

BZB,

Thanks for your comments. Yes, the A-4 was an amazing aircraft. Its long service live in the USN and USMC is a testament to that . Regarding the canopy strap and the A-4M, I can only think that maybe the hinges in the A-4M were stronger and the Marines didn't feel they needed to use it. Or, they didn't want to use a "low technology" 60's era strap in their newer technology aircraft. Just a thought.

Finally, in regard to my earlier question, in your 16 years of A-4 experience, did you try to avoid stepping on the seat when getting in and out of the cockpit?

Thanks.

Ron

Ron,

BzB and I were on the phone today catching up and conversation turned to the forum and then your post about canopy straps. BzB remembers those straps and I don’t, but he flew the A4, I just crawled all over the thing on the ground. Could be our planes had not had the straps added, I don’t know. Here’s a picture of a few of our planes and no strap. Go figure. And no, that’s not a service mod hanging from that probe, that’s my old friend Derf (Fred).

 

[nittany03]

Never flown an A-4, but in both ejection seat aircraft I've flown (T-45, F/A-18), not stepping on the seat is standard practice. I always assumed it was to not soil or wear out the seat cushion, but there could be a better reason for it that I am unaware of

Just try getting in and out of the front seat of a Prowler without stepping on the seat. You'll end up on your ass 8 feet below the boarding platform. There's no "cool" way to get in and out of the Fighting Drumstick.

 

[rondebmar]

Flew only the B/C models. That said, at least one of them (but perhaps both) had a large c/b panel on the lower right side of of the cockpit. I remember it well, account the day I had to recycle the related c/b multiple times, attempting to get my windscreen wiper to operate ...off the boat ...in a driving rainstorm ...approaching low state ...no bingo field available ...no airborne tanker ...

 

[brownshoe]

Did you guys have a fuse box???

This is a photo of one of our mules (tow tractor).

 

[BusyBee604]

And no, that’s not a service mod hanging from that probe, that’s my old friend Derf (Fred).

Shoe, love that pic of Derf logging one-arm pullups for PT...heh heh, reminds me of a promo poster for a "Planet Of The Apes" flick!
BzB

 

[brownshoe]

Shoe, love that pic of Derf logging one-arm pullups for PT...heh heh, reminds me of a promo poster for a "Planet Of The Apes" flick!
BzB

Eat your heart out. (Sorry for the thread jack all. Private joke.) )

 

[zipmartin]

We had A-4M's at NAS Dallas, probably the only Navy site besides Pax River or China Lake to have the "M", from around April of '88 til we flew them to the Boneyard in March of '94. We always used the strap. We always used the strap in the "E's" and "F's" at Oceana when I was there with VC-12/VFC-12 in the 80's and '90's. The maintenance guys told us it saved wear and tear on the canopy snubber which held the canopy in the open position, and on the canopy open limiting stops. Basically, the strap provided a cushioned stop to the canopy prior to it hitting the mechanical stop of the hinge and/or the snubber while taxiing. Of course, if everyone just taxiied easy and slow, like me, there would have never been a need for the strap.

Regarding stepping on the seat; I mentioned earlier, I was able to gingerly support myself via my left hand on the top of the windscreen and my right hand on the top of the ejection seat and slide down into the seat without stepping on it. Getting out........now that was a different story. After 3000+ hours in the A-4, I was never able to figure out a way of easily getting out without stepping on the seat.

Helolumpy, we indeed had a "fusebox" in the nose wheel well. I remember a time when we had three A-4's transiting back to Oceana from a Rosey Roads det with a fuel stop at Homestead AFB. After fueling, getting started, and trying to beat huge thunderstorms bearing down on us, I had a terrible squeal in my headset and I couldn't transmit or receive. I considered just going anyway (NORDO) as the -2 wingman, but the thought of going all the way to NTU as a NORDO wingman dodging storms didn't appeal to me. I couldn't transmit to my already-started-and-ready-to-beat-feet-out-of-dodge-before-the-storms squadronmates to let them know what was going on; I could only give them a thumbs down and point to my headset. I had had the same problem once before and knew that a certain fuse had blown. So I shut down, jumped out, and crawled under the plane into the nose wheel well, intent on grabbing a spare fuse and replacing the burned out one. Unfortunately, there was no correct spare fuse in my aircraft. So I went to my flight lead's a/c and borrowed one of his spares. I replaced my burned out fuse, quickly climbed back into the cockpit as it was starting to rain, started up, and we departed just as the t-storm was hitting the western edge of the field. The flight lead, who just happened to be the C.O., told me after we got home, that he and the other guy had quite a conversation over the radio, while I was borrowing a fuse from his a/c, about "what the hell is he doing under MY a/c?"

 

[brownshoe]

Helolumpy, we indeed had a "fusebox" in the nose wheel well."

Forward "hell hole".

 

[Renegade One]

Helolumpy, we indeed had a "fusebox" in the nose wheel well. [Remainder edited for brevity...]

VERY cool "TINS" story...thanks!

 

[Ronl]

Hi Guys,

I am really enjoying reading all of the posts related to the use of the canopy restraint strap and my question regarding whether you stepped on the seat when getting in and out of the A-4 cockpit. Thanks for sharing them with me.

I have another question regarding the A-4. How often did you use the 20mm Mk 12 cannons and how effective were they? I understand each gun normally had 100 rounds per gun in the magazine. I also understand that during the Viet Nam war, as part of the "Shoe horn" ECM exercise, the ammunition magazines were replaced with flexibe belts that held very limited ammunition (I have read 20 rounds per gun). I also understand that the ammunition was increased to 200 rounds per gun in the A-4M.

Were the guns fairly reliable, or did they jam often? I would be interested in any comments or stories you may have to post regarding the 20mm cannon.

Thanks.

Ron

 

[Ronl]

BzB,

After 16 years of flying the A-4, you must have some interesting comments on the reliability/effectiveness of the Mk 12 20mm cannons. Hope to hear from you.

Ron

Shoe, love that pic of Derf logging one-arm pullups for PT...heh heh, reminds me of a promo poster for a "Planet Of The Apes" flick!
BzB