Sending newly winged aviators to reserve squadrons...

[rare21]

just got the call from my squadron today. Asked if i'd be interested in doing 8 years active or do 2 years active then go to a reserve squadron. The Petty Officer said right now its voluntary but may go mandatory for some of us that graduated in 2002. I had to answer right then and there and of course i said no.

 

[zab1001]

For those keeping score, rare21 is in helo advanced, so it is being offered to other communities.

 

[Balanc51]

Ive been reading some of your posts....havent gotten a chance to respond...but I jsut want to say coming from a Navy family who were all aviators(father retired P3 pilot and flies for continental, both brothers c2 pilots) to go airlines after the navy you need at least 1500 hours as PIC time...which you get as an instructor mainly. So that P-3 deal for 2 years then reserve for 6 will not get you close to that. Cause you won't have an instructor tour(which over 3/4 of your flying comes from that) my brother is currently on his instructor tour after being with crv-40(COD's in Norfolk, Va) and he stil doesnt have enough hours to even apply to the airlines. I mean he can apply to be a regional jet pilot....which means your flying really small stuff and your always on call...im talking like 737 and above! which is where the real money si anyways....so I wouldnt give up my military contract to take less money then your already gettin to fly military planes then they would give you to fly regional jets...I talked it over with my father and both brothers and they all agreed....so if your looking at doing airlines(737 and aboves...then keep your contract)...hope that makes sense...if you have any questions ...i will be mor than happy to ask the 3 of them and also my dads friends(one of which was on the MMA board for the new age P-3's)

B

 

[bch]

FYI this got mentioned in South Park today.

 

[HAL Pilot]

to go airlines after the navy you need at least 1500 hours as PIC time.......which means your flying really small stuff and your always on call...im talking like 737 and above! which is where the real money si anyways....B

Unless you are talking all PIC (Cessna 172s for example), this statement is bull $hit!. I had 2600 total time with 1050 turbine PIC in a Twin Otter when I interviewed at Southwest and Hawaiian. I got hired at Hawaiian. It was not my flight time that kept me from getting hired at Southwest - I just f'd-up the interview. All my time was civilian with about 1000 in Cessnas and the rest in Twin Otters. I did have about 2000 PIC if you count all my Cessna, CFI etc. time. I was a P-3 NFO in the Navy.

Most majors do not require 1000 turbine PIC. Most majors, when they were last hiring pre 9/11, would hire a 1500 total time military guy. It's only been since 9/11 that there has been a large number of military fixed-wing pilots going to the regionals. This is because they are doing the majority of the hiring. I know of at least 2 2000 hour P-3 pilots with less than 500 P-3 PIC that have been hired at Fedex in the last year. Neither had a flying shore tour.

I also know a couple of C-9 selres that are furloughed from airlines that have flown 600 to 700 hours this year. Neither are activate but are (as our chair force brethern say) "guard bumming". They fly when they want and as much as they want. They say the TARs are flying just as much if not more.

 

[Balanc51]

im talking about being competitive..you can apply at any point you want, really...but to be competitive...you should have 1500 hours of PIC....my brothers OCS friend who got e-6s, applied to southwest and got denied due to the fact that he did not have enough hours because he did not do an instructor tour(which was a whole big mix up is what i am told) so he didnt have the hours to be competive...im just speaking of people i have talked too.,..i obviously have no experience...but i am just saying coming from other proplr who have gone through and some succeeding and some not....they say to get a good job you need your instructor tour to get the hours....because you wont get enough hours in a P3 to be competitive....and that program will not give you an instructor tour! thats all I was trying to say...but if you have a diff experience thats fine...im just saying from the people i know and have talked to and who have gone through this ****....and thats what they say....so take it as you want!

 

[wink]

All the talk about what type of experience the airlines look for and how many hours they like to see is useless for just about everyone on this forum. Most all major airlines are furlouging pilots, and have a commitment to bring those guys back before they hire off the street. Best guess I can make is there are 8000-10000 major airline pilots laid off that will have to have thier jobs offered back to them before any of you guys get a shot at it. And those guys, for the most part, make better applicants for what jobs there are at other airlines because of their recent airline experience. The actual expereince level the various airlines look for has always varied between them. And you certainly can't draw any conclusion from past experience to guide someone on a decision he will make about a career change many years from now when the airline business will likely not look anything like it does today. The only advice one should take seriously is more hours are generally better then fewer hours. It is that simple. Fly what you want. Have some fun with your military expereinces and don't be in a hurry to get out if you want to fly for a major airline. Let things shake out first. It will be awhile.

 

[Balanc51]

thats basically what im sayin...more hours are better..and you wont get them with this stupid offer the navy is giving out....but you are wrong about the layoffs...continetal alone will bring back there last group of guys in Febrary...so they will have no more guys on the street....so they will be hiring...but your talking all 0-3 guys and above who have the experience and hours....united still has 3,000 guys out...and i dont know about american airlines...or delta......i stay very frequent with all the airlines and what they are doing and plan to do....but in the next year the only one that looks promising is continental....so right here is another reason for the guys who want to do airlines NOT to do this program because in 2 years the airlines are projescted to be just as bad....but again as you say there is NO telling what will be...so if you want to be an airline pilot(AND I DO) the4 smart thing is to stay in...BUT again it is your decision and you never know what might happen!!! just weigh all the postiives and negatives!!! and whatever any of you select...good luck!!!

 

[46Driver]

Balanc51,
As an airline pilot for a Low Cost Carrier, I can tell you that the whole industry is changing - and not for the better. Defined benefit pension plans are on their way out - soon its going to be only 401k's and such. The majors such as American, United have cut pay to the extent that we have O-5's here at EUCOM making more money than they would as flying 767's international (First Officers). Schedules are getting increasingly worse - and because all of the aircraft are flying near capacity, jumpseating is near impossible. Within 10 years, you will probably only see 2-3 majors and 3-4 LCC's. I myself am looking at another line of work - hence the Double Master's Degree.

I will also tell you that, in my opinion, airline flying is about as exciting as watching paint dry. Climb to flight level 310, hold due to traffic delays, and then line up the ILS to glide in - day after day after day after day....

 

[zab1001]

they say to get a good job you need your instructor tour to get the hours....because you wont get enough hours in a P3 to be competitive....and that program will not give you an instructor tour!

I just wanna clarify for any VP-ers or wannabees out there. It is possible to be an IP in your Fleet squadron. It is also possible to get follow on orders for your shore tour as an instructor, whether its in T-34s, T-44s, T-45s (yes guys, it happens, very rarely, but it happens), or P-3s at the FRS. In fact, at least half of the pilots leaving VP Fleet tours end up as IPs somewhere.

 

[bigmouth]

I will also tell you that, in my opinion, airline flying is about as exciting as watching paint dry.

While this may be true, it's still a lot more exciting than sitting behind a desk, which could easily be the alternative.

 

[Balanc51]

Yes I understand that the whole industry is changing...and at a very rapid pace...thats just another reason not to take this offer that the navy is going.....again i want to be an airline pilot and i am not going to take that offer because of the fact that the industry is changin rapidly and there really isnt any room because they are bringing people back off the street who are alll fully qualified 737 pilts(etc) and there would be no reason to hire me...another line of work is what i may have to consider....but by keeping my contract and giving my whole commitment...cause then maybe in that time frame...the airlines wil be better off....and if not then ok maybe stay active duty or look for a new line of work....who knows...everything is changing so fast including the Navy!


and to the other guy who says you will most likely get a an IP tour....that is true if you are in the fleet...but i went in and asked specifically about this offer and the 2 years active and 6 years reserve is with the same squadron the whole time...you dont switch and get a new reserve squadron until that entire 8 years is up....so you wont have an IP tour during that 8 years...so guys who think they will do this offer and jump into the airlines are almost surely mistaken....but im not gona say its impossible because crazier things have happened...but thats the offer they are giving....2 years active duty....then 6 years as a reservest all witht he same reservist squadron....so the first 2 years is bascially like being a TAR. i didint ask if the 2 years active duty and 6 years reserve could all be with a training squadron...ie Vt-27, Vt-3...but they did say your entire commitment would be witht eh same reservest squadron...all 8 years!



B

 

[zab1001]

Never underestimate the power of punctuation.

Again, I'm here posting only to clarify. From the posts we've received from guys who have been briefed on this, the offer is 2 years active with a VR (not VT) squadron follwed by 6 years of SELRES, in the same command.

On a side note, it is entirely possible that some of these new "2/6" VR guys will become IPs in the reserve squadrons they serve with. Someone has to conduct pilot trainers and annual NATOPS checks for the single anchors driving the bus. (Just a ray of hope for you guys facing this)

 

[McNamara]

On November 19th the VT-31 SDO left a message on my phone asking me to call back about the "reserve option." I had no idea what he was talking about, and by the time I called back to ask, I still didn't get more than, "Well, we had you down as a 'no' and the list has already gone in, so it doesn't matter." No explanation.

Apparently, the day before this, the squadron leadership held a hasty briefing with the students. I didn't even find out until the next night, since I was in the sim when the meeting happened. Oh well.

I completely understand why they want to do this, and it's certainly better than RIF'ing people at random, but why couldn't they just close off the pipeline at its source for a few months each year instead?

Here's something else I'm curious about. Am I the only one here who DOES NOT want to fly for the airlines? The pay and chances of hiring are starting to suck, as 46driver pointed out, plus I can't imagine having any fun at all.

Certain "desk jobs" I can actually see being much more intellectually stimulating than bussing passengers around - no disrespect intended to airline pilots of course, my mom was a Delta flight attendant for 33 years.

 

[Jaxs170]

Ooooh, now I see what is going on here with this VR deal.

The AF has a similar deal with their reserve/guard squadrons where new guys/gals, usually in their 20s, get hired by the squadron, do OTS to get their 2Lt bars, then go through flight training and ultimately end up with the same squadron for many years, usually the first 2 or so on full time active duty (though this varies from person to person, squadron to squadron).

Now granted, the AF squadron can be anything from F-16s to 135s and they do go out and get in the fight. I knew a few guys who were at Vance with me doing this, they basically just didn't want to be full time active but still wanted to fly for their country. I couldn't figure out if this was a good deal or a bad deal for them, and I still can't. If the Navy is taking this approach, I would advise against taking it, we've sold enough of our soul to the AF already, time to draw the line before we become assimilated.