Sexual Assault Information from Commissioned Female (AF)ROTC Officers

[Galaxy]

Hello,

I'm a female interested in joining either the ROTC or AFROTC, but have been hesitant recently after reading about the high rates of sexual assault and rape that happen on military bases. Due to this, I was hoping if anyone (preferably female, as that’s who this question is regarding) who went through either of these programs could shed some light on their experiences.

Thank you greatly,

Galaxy

(edit : Guys, I’m not looking to have some bullshit debate over this. Whether or not you yourself believe it, there is a known issue with gender-based assault in the military, and statistically speaking, there’s a very good chance you’re going to get assaulted (as the rate is above half). I’m not looking for your opinions, as while I’m aware of very unfair male assault, it is different for women. I’m very SIMPLY looking for a woman’s experience on these issues. And frankly, I don’t see why some of you feel like you know everything about something you may not even have to worry about. So please, leave the space open for what I’m actually looking for: a woman’s experience. Not a debate).

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I understand what you’re saying, I do. However, the problem with comparing it to civilization professions is the difference in legal ability- women in those positions can go to HR, can publicly sue, etc… while in the military, until very recently, it was only within the chain of command could persecution occur (as I’m sure you know). The issue with this is that many of the cases happened by their officer, or the officer sided with the rapists and therefore nothing was done about it (aforementioned toxic chain of command). Furthermore, the outrage over rape and sexual assault in the military is due in part to accusations NOT being taken highly- Issues that forced violent offenses such as these to be recently moved to a third party.

Given that you are looking at ROTC it indicates you are young and there is what you see and read, and what actually happens. Since being in the corporate world I have worked with and seen, or known friends who were on the receiving end of sexual harassment, both M to M, M to F, F to F, and F to M. The majority were M to F which to me seems to fit what is often seen, but the common them to all is of all the ones I have seen only 1 had anything done to them and it wasn't due to the harassment but due to hostile work environment on other employees, none of them ever sued as none could find an attorney that thought they would win as none of it was blatant and/or no other people were around when it happened.

I never saw a person in the military who was accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment that had tangible evidence against them that was not held accountable. There were 2 cases that I saw were the claims were proven to be false, in 1 case they considered charges against the accuser.

I have seen more people held accountable in the military than I have in the corporate world, I would have ZERO concerns about my daughters or any other female family members joining the military.

FYI the civilian who was accused and terminated for hostile work environment found another job within 2 months at at the same level he was at, and he was also in HR. Companies due to legal concerns will often not disclose why a person was terminated.

 

[Galaxy]

I guess my question would be, what are you looking for specifically out of this thread? Would several female officers telling you that they had no issues with sexual assault make you feel like pursuing the military was worthwhile? Would their experience outweigh the statistics that you’re quoting?

As I said before, I legitimately feel like the military has improved over the course of my career. I may have worked with exceptional people, but I can only think of one sexual assault that’s been reported in any of the units I’ve been in (which is still too many obviously). The victim was given all of the support she was comfortable with, the accusation was pursued vigorously, the accused sailor ended up receiving appropriate due process, and ultimately was punished accordingly.

Furthermore, the female officers I worked with were treated like any other officer, and judged based on the quality of their performance. I have two daughters, and I would wholeheartedly support them joining the Navy if they want to do so.

So I guess the bottom line is: what do you really want to do with your life? If a military career excites you, then pursue it. At the end of the day, anecdotes from strangers on the internet shouldn’t be your deciding factor.

No, there is a lot more going into play behind the scenes that you’re not aware of. However, I haven’t been able to get the privilege of females within the military personally sharing their own experience, and that’s merely all I wanted. I don’t just want statistics and articles- I want real experiences from people other than whose whole job is to recruit (the only place I can otherwise turn to). And to be honest, that didn’t seem like too much to ask for. Hell, if that story - including with your daughters - was what you started with, it would’ve been partially exactly what I’m looking for. I come from a military family, with many of my uncles currently serving. But none of them have recommended service to me, and/or have even warned me to be cautious. So I’ve been hoping for an outside perspective by women who have served. None of the answers alone would make me decide, it would rather just add to either the pros or cons list for my final decision.

 

[Swanee]

edit : Guys, I’m not looking to have some bullshit debate over this.

Then why are you here?


You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, and don't understand that you're interacting with people who have decades of experience at every level in multiple branches of the military.

You don't get to lecture us. You get to ask questions and listen.

 

[Galaxy]

Given that you are looking at ROTC it indicates you are young and there is what you see and read, and what actually happens. Since being in the corporate world I have worked with and seen, or known friends who were on the receiving end of sexual harassment, both M to M, M to F, F to F, and F to M. The majority were M to F which to me seems to fit what is often seen, but the common them to all is of all the ones I have seen only 1 had anything done to them and it wasn't due to the harassment but due to hostile work environment on other employees, none of them ever sued as none could find an attorney that thought they would win as none of it was blatant and/or no other people were around when it happened.

I never saw a person in the military who was accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment that had tangible evidence against them that was not held accountable. There were 2 cases that I saw were the claims were proven to be false, in 1 case they considered charges against the accuser.

I have seen more people held accountable in the military than I have in the corporate world, I would have ZERO concerns about my daughters or any other female family members joining the military.

FYI the civilian who was accused and terminated for hostile work environment found another job within 2 months at at the same level he was at, and he was also in HR. Companies due to legal concerns will often not disclose why a person was terminated.

Thank you for the meaningful contribution, I appreciate it. Knowing that a father wouldn’t have concerns over his daughters joining is a very helpful view.

 

[Galaxy]

Then why are you here?

To get experience, as stated. Something which two people have already, helpfully, done. I posted as a “question” instead of a “discussion” for a reason.

 

[Swanee]

To get experience, as stated. Something which two people have already, helpfully, done. I posted as a “question” instead of a “discussion” for a reason.

Get rid of the chip on your shoulder. Understand who you're interacting with.

 

[Mos]

Whichever female AW chimes in here is going to have their work cut out for them.

 

[Brett327]

I'd say lots of claims rather than lots of offenses. Dunno how accurate is but I've heard stories from buddies in the infantry on how "Barracks bunnies" go down on every dude on base then report everyone for "Sexual assault" or "Sexual harassment" for a free promotion. Regardless though sexual assault is definitely an issue the military needs to deal with.

This is a myth, and not appropriate for this discussion. If you "don't know how accurate it is," then best keep it to yourself.

 

[klamsy]

I've been in the Marine Corps for almost 11 years, commissioned from a service academy, and spent two years as the squadron Uniformed Victims Advocate (UVA, who is responsible for training personnel on Sexual Assault Awareness/Prevention and ensuring victims in the unit are taken care of). I am certain I was picked to be the UVA purely on the basis of being the sole female officer in the squadron at the time.

Since I started at USNA in 2008, I think as a military we've made some pretty great strides on how sexual assault is handled. It's pretty hard to overstate how seriously sexual assault and harassment are taken now. A commander who doesn't properly handle a sexual assault in his/her command will not be a commander for long, period. And at the lower levels, while people often still roll their eyes at some of the clunky training modules, I think there has been a pretty dramatic cultural shift on these topics as well (caveat: I live a relatively insulted life as an officer). The military culture regarding these topics has changed, maybe a bit slower, in line with how society has changed.

Thankfully, I have never been a victim of assault and never had to be "first responder" to a case or first person taking a report. I did help a couple victims through the latter/legal part of the process as a UVA for cases of varying severity. They had mixed results, but I don't think that was necessarily due to being held in a military court martial versus a civilian court (tough, hard to prove cases). You are also talking about ~2-3 cases in almost seven years in the fleet, across 3 squadrons each comprising hundreds of people. Is it an issue? Sure. But it's also one that I've always seen handled with appropriate seriousness.

 

[Brett327]

I take offense to your belittlement.

I'm going to do you a favor and redirect whatever your strategy is on this site.

You've got lots of people here with decades of experience as officers in the military. You have a tremendous amount of expertise and experience at your fingertips if you ask the right questions. I'm here to tell you that you're not making very effective use of that resource. Time to reset your mindset a bit and absorb what people are telling you. If you start telling people that you're offended for reason X, Y or Z, people aren't going to help you.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

To get experience, as stated. Something which two people have already, helpfully, done. I posted as a “question” instead of a “discussion” for a reason.

I would argue you came on here with an agenda and to “ambush’ anyone who attempted to question it.

You probably would have had a more enjoyable experience by simply asking to talk + ask questions to female military members because you have doubts / concerns about serving.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Whichever female AW chimes in here is going to have their work cut out for them.

I’ll bite. OP, take the chip off your shoulder and listen to what’s been told to you thus far. If you take stuff so personally during a civil discussion on the internet, you will struggle with the frank and not kid glove handling way the military does business. Is sexual assault an issue? Of course it is, we’re a reflection of society. Should that be the barrier to a woman joining? No.

 

[PhrogLoop]

I don’t just want statistics and articles- I want real experiences from people other than whose whole job is to recruit (the only place I can otherwise turn to).

I’m not a woman. But I do have a story and some perspective. I was the SAPR Officer for CNAF (Naval Aviaton, reporting to the 3 Star Air Boss) and a trained Sexual Assault Victim Advocate. I was one of a few people who traveled around the Navy (and other organizations) with the “Change the Culture” presentation. We stood up and admitted that the Navy had a problem. And personally, I admitted that at one point I may have been part of the problem, even though I never assaulted or harassed anyone. Maybe the jokes I told or found funny when I thought my shit didn’t stink contributed to a culture of degradation and disrespect. Maybe perpetrators were allowed to operate inside that culture because it became normative. It took a while for me, but I learned that change starts with the individual (not from lectures, training, or even punishment) and I decided to take some ownership for my behavior and the behavior I’d tolerate around me. In a few cases, I learned that this idea spread and was even quantified and validated by organizations like USNS MERCY that requested extra support, made interventions around their crew, and noticed a dramatic decrease in SA incidence in their next deployment compared to their last. I was also asked to speak about this at the large company where I now work and was asked to lead a culture/behavior change effort for an entire business line. There are others like us still in uniform and I’m glad to see that the Navy is open to different ideas about how to change things for the better.

 

[mmx1]

When the first reply is ”you can’t prevent 100% of sexual assault“ and the second is about “barracks bunnies” waving the flag of false reporting, maybe the OP is justified in having a chip

What’s the safety culture in that community? Well, you can’t prevent 100% of crashes. I mean, those jokers over there crash way more planes. We don’t have a problem any worse than any other community. Except for the conclusions of the Independent commission that was only the result of high visibility crashes.

I’m talking about the Independent Super Stallion Readiness report, what did you think i was talking about?

 

[cfam]

When the first reply is ”you can’t prevent 100% of sexual assault“ and the second is about “barracks bunnies” waving the flag of false reporting, maybe the OP is justified in having a chip

What’s the safety culture in that community? Well, you can’t prevent 100% of crashes. I mean, those jokers over there crash way more planes. We don’t have a problem any worse than any other community. Except for the conclusions of the Independent commission that was only the result of high visibility crashes.

I’m talking about the Independent Super Stallion Readiness report, what did you think i was talking about?

There’s a definite difference between coming off the way the OP has throughout this thread and the analogy you’re trying to make. And the poster that made the barracks bunny comparison has been shut down hard because it’s total bullshit.

Obviously no one here is saying that having any sexual assaults is a good thing or that we should give up because we can’t eradicate it. In fact, the point’s been made repeatedly that we need to do better, and that the Navy is constantly trying to improve. Is the current system perfect? Absolutely not, and we need to keep working until we get it right, exactly like we do with aviation mishaps.

Instead, what people have been trying to get across is that, while incredibly concerning, sexual assault statistics should not be the deciding factor for whether to pursue a military career. To use your analogy, that would be like shutting down flying entirely because mishaps occur.