Shoemaker Scholarship to get masters at NPS prior to Pensacola?

[Gonzo08]

Wait, what? NAWDC is a tour for 2nd tour JOs in VFA no? It definitely is in helo-land.

That's correct. Unless I'm misunderstanding Uncle Fester.

I can't speak for big wings and helos, but that's how it works for TACAIR.

TOPGUN/HAVOC are the first part of a JOs first shore tour. You complete the 3-ish month course, graduate, and then stay in Fallon as an instructor or report to the local weapons school in Oceana, Lemoore, or Whidbey for instructor duty.

 

[HuggyU2]

I certainly don't know nuances in Navy PME... but holy shit, yes! Jump all over that deal... for a plethora of reasons!

 

[cfam]

That's correct. Unless I'm misunderstanding Uncle Fester.

I can't speak for big wings and helos, but that's how it works for TACAIR.

TOPGUN/HAVOC are the first part of a JOs first shore tour. You complete the 3-ish month course, graduate, and then stay in Fallon as an instructor or report to the local weapons school in Oceana, Lemoore, or Whidbey for instructor duty.

There have been instances where VFA has sent JOs to TOPGUN during their first sea tour (it happened to a JO during my last cruise), but it’s definitely not the typical path. In his case he came back to the squadron for the end of deployment (a few months) and then went to his production tour.

 

[Dhoop29]

If the time at NPS means when done you roll right into flight school, i.e, you don't enter into a long wait to start like you would if you went direct, then it seems like efficient use of time. I doubt extremely it'd block you from applying to TPS due to shore duty constraints. It would definitely make you more attractive.

Having the MS knowledge before flight school versus having it after...that's an interesting thing to ponder. If your MS was aero-related, or controls in general, it could be useful.

The TPS application takes timing pretty seriously these days. If you don’t have the timing to support a full Test tour they say “Thanks for playing” even if you have the academics, record, and recommendations to back it up.

On a separate, but related note, the SNFO pipeline has been moving relatively fast. Faster than an 18-24 month grad school gig.

 

[Waveoff]

That's correct. Unless I'm misunderstanding Uncle Fester.

I can't speak for big wings and helos, but that's how it works for TACAIR.

TOPGUN/HAVOC are the first part of a JOs first shore tour. You complete the 3-ish month course, graduate, and then stay in Fallon as an instructor or report to the local weapons school in Oceana, Lemoore, or Whidbey for instructor duty.

Same for VP. You can certainly apply to attend the Maritime WTI course during first sea tour, however it is more common to do it during your first shore tour as a member of the MPRWS or Wing WTUs.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Im gonna be honest, I have no idea what a JPME is, or CBT.

CBT = Computer-based Training. It will become the bane of your existence annually. I'm surprised you haven't gotten any in NROTC.

JPME = Joint Professional Military Education. It is usually provided via CBT and will also become the bane of your existence.

Joint Professional Military Education and Computer Based Training.

JPME is a requirement before CO... so not a huge deal for you at the moment.

Is it not a requirement for promotion to O5? That's how it worked on the SWO side.

I certainly don't know nuances in Navy PME... but holy shit, yes! Jump all over that deal... for a plethora of reasons!

It's just as bad or maybe worse than what the Air Force does.

 

[DanMa1156]

CBT = Computer-based Training. It will become the bane of your existence annually. I'm surprised you haven't gotten any in NROTC.

JPME = Joint Professional Military Education. It is usually provided via CBT and will also become the bane of your existence.


Is it not a requirement for promotion to O5? That's how it worked on the SWO side.

If it isn't... well I'm f'd.

But I am very confident when I say it's a Command, not Commander requirement. I would be surprised if it was actually different on the SWO side instead of it's more of a "strong recommendation" for your board. Most of our folks earn JPME after their DH tour as they are screened immediately thereafter for Commander and Command (+1 yearish depending on timing).

 

[AllAmerican75]

If it isn't... well I'm f'd.

But I am very confident when I say it's a Command, not Commander requirement. I would be surprised if it was actually different on the SWO side instead of it's more of a "strong recommendation" for your board. Most of our folks earn JPME after their DH tour as they are screened immediately thereafter for Commander and Command (+1 yearish depending on timing).

That's just what they told us every time PERS-41 brought out the road show. They told us you need a Masters and JPME complete in order to screen for O5. It's been a while though, so it may have changed. I no longer have to chase the JPME requirement as an EDO so I haven't really kept up with it.

 

[cfam]

If it isn't... well I'm f'd.

But I am very confident when I say it's a Command, not Commander requirement. I would be surprised if it was actually different on the SWO side instead of it's more of a "strong recommendation" for your board. Most of our folks earn JPME after their DH tour as they are screened immediately thereafter for Commander and Command (+1 yearish depending on timing).

In VAQ land it’s only a requirement to have it complete by the time you take command. That being said, most people try to have it on their record in time for the command screen board.

 

[Gatordev]

That's just what they told us every time PERS-41 brought out the road show. They told us you need a Masters and JPME complete in order to screen for O5. It's been a while though, so it may have changed. I no longer have to chase the JPME requirement as an EDO so I haven't really kept up with it.

Historically, it hasn't been a statutory requirement. If it's a way to cull the heard in a specific community or designator, that may a different matter.


As an aside...I've been watching this thread with amusement. Not at the OP or others here, but how "this has already happened, it will all happen again."

Pre-flight school Masters was a thing ~2000. As long as enough people partake (and why wouldn't they?), there will be a critical mass of people that PERS will have to deal with. Timing will be adjusted, sometimes in favor of the member, sometimes in favor of the Navy.

 

[Flash]

Wait, what? NAWDC is a tour for 2nd tour JOs in VFA no? It definitely is in helo-land.

TOPGUN/HAVOC are the first part of a JOs first shore tour. You complete the 3-ish month course, graduate, and then stay in Fallon as an instructor or report to the local weapons school in Oceana, Lemoore, or Whidbey for instructor duty.

Same for VP. You can certainly apply to attend the Maritime WTI course during first sea tour, however it is more common to do it during your first shore tour as a member of the MPRWS or Wing WTUs.

Back in the dark ages weapons schools, including TOPGUN (ALL CAPS, one word! ) and PTI, generally included for folks in their first fleet tour who had completed their first cruise and prior to their second. The other scenario I often saw was If you got 2nd tour orders to one they would go to the course and then roll right into being an instructor. Both TACAIR and VQ were often doing a second squadron tour in lieu of a disassociated sea tour when I flew with both (VQ was just starting to do that), the plan was VP would do the same but it hadn't really started yet.

 

[taxi1]

but holy shit, yes! Jump all over that deal

Like a Marine on a hand grenade

 

[Waveoff]

Back in the dark ages weapons schools, including TOPGUN (ALL CAPS, one word! ) and PTI, generally included for folks in their first fleet tour who had completed their first cruise and prior to their second. The other scenario I often saw was If you got 2nd tour orders to one they would go to the course and then roll right into being an instructor. Both TACAIR and VQ were often doing a second squadron tour in lieu of a disassociated sea tour when I flew with both (VQ was just starting to do that), the plan was VP would do the same but it hadn't really started yet.

Each VP command gets one Super JO WTI in lieu of a dissociated sea tour called a SMTI.

The bummer is that we only get one and it’s relatively random if you get a pilot or NFO. We are not allotted one of each (because those extra 12 billets could obviously be better used on the boat 👎).

 

[DanMa1156]

In VAQ land it’s only a requirement to have it complete by the time you take command. That being said, most people try to have it on their record in time for the command screen board.

I bet that's true in helo-land too, but a lot of us keep getting sucked up a YG. I am getting screened with a HW FITREP, but the beginning of the board will coincide at the end of my DH tour which I'm not sure used to be as common in years past.

 

[ploop]

I would double check to see if you're being offered the 18-24 month program or the 12 month program. If you are coming direct from NROTC it is probably the 12 month (unless they changed something in the last year).

Also, is it Shoemaker, or EEE ('Early Ensign Education') disguised as Shoemaker? I have also heard the program called IGEP. There is almost no uniformity in naming.

I have heard nothing about the shortening of a first tour. As far as I know it is business as usual once reporting to Pensacola.

AEDO connections are a very real thing in MAE/SE.

PM me if you have any more specific questions. I am currently slugging it out at NPS.