Big motors? No. That proposal has been repeatedly shot down by N98.
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USN Showdown between Super Hornet and F-35
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Guys, please don't fool yourself, STOBAR is wasted money that every minute of Russian experience proves. As a business only for Indians, though...
The current plan is to launch a test jet off of HMS QE for what it's worth.
My guess is twofold. One is that to increase the effectiveness of the Quad, would it be possible to operate F/A-18's (both the regular Super Hornet and the electronic warfare version) from the UK's Queen Elizabeth class, Japan's Izumo class and India's aircraft carriers?
Second, if the US takes significant combat damage in a naval war and multiple big decks are out of action, how do you maximize the potential of the new big, but straight deck, LHA's (America, Tripoli and Bougainville). Do you modify them to handle conventional aircraft and what does that mean? ski-ramp? catapult? angled deck? (Historically, several of the Essex class and all of the Midway class carriers - which are roughly the same size as the America class - were converted to have catapults and angled decks.) My perception of the US shipbuilding industry is that most of it has been outsourced and we do not have the capability to surge and build multiple Ford class carriers quickly in the event of battle losses thus having to optimize what you do have in the inventory.
I would be interested in hearing what the fast movers here have to say.
Straight deck Essex class carrier Lake Champlain.
Essex class carrier Ticonderoga after conversion to an angled deck
Most of the fleet that won the Pacific war had been funded and was in work in 1940.
To be fair, Inc 3 doesn't currently weigh anything so there's that.
Inc 3 of what?
India isn’t really a close ally, and we shouldn’t be selling them too much of anything. Change my mind.
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They aren't an ally at all. Someone in your position should understand the precise definition of ally. They are, however, a counterbalance to a host of malign actors in the region. A strong India, aligned with the US, is in our national interest. To that end, they are, by US law, a Major Defense Partner, which means we can sell them weapons systems.
@Spekkio - I hope this post doesn't set off your "personal and profession attack" detector. You should really get that thing calibrated.
@Spekkio - I hope this post doesn't set off your "personal and profession attack" detector. You should really get that thing calibrated.
Partner yes, ally no. I know the doctrine. Yes, they are somewhat of a counterbalance to China, Pakistan, and regional Islamic terror groups. And yes we sell them arms - but generally not the good stuff. They typically prefer buying Soviet hardware anyway, if history is the judge. We could chalk that penchant up to price differences… but price alone doesn’t fully explain their close defense industrial relationship history with the Soviets (over America) throughout the Cold War. Been some recent rumors about increasing the US-India partnership (and heck we even renamed a geographic CCMD) but I’ll believe it when I see it.
When push comes to shove, as an outside observer and non-expert, I frankly don’t see India jumping into the fray to defend Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, or Guam/Hawaii from any major threat. Maybe that doubt is misplaced, but by my count they contributed zero troops to the US-led coalitions during the ‘91 Gulf War, Iraq War, or Afghanistan War… even though they have one of the 3 largest armies in the world. India doesn’t seem to get involved if they don’t immediately care. I mean, even for the Fukushima disaster, I could only find reference to India sending some woolen clothes and blankets for the humanitarian relief efforts. Not what you’d expect of a real great friend of their Asia-Pacific neighbors let alone a security guarantor.
Any defense materiel they would buy from us, they’re more than likely buying it just to one-up Pakistan - not to support some broader US goals around Indo-Pacific theater stability. Plus, given how much Russian hardware they operate, I’m guessing their airfields, naval bases, and depots are just crawling with Russian-affiliated contract maintainers and slick haired sales guys named Ivan. Not a great situation to drop in any large-dollar US airframe procurement, even if it’s “just a 4th gen” aircraft. I know we already sold them P-8Is.
Just my $0.02.
When push comes to shove, as an outside observer and non-expert, I frankly don’t see India jumping into the fray to defend Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, or Guam/Hawaii from any major threat. Maybe that doubt is misplaced, but by my count they contributed zero troops to the US-led coalitions during the ‘91 Gulf War, Iraq War, or Afghanistan War… even though they have one of the 3 largest armies in the world. India doesn’t seem to get involved if they don’t immediately care. I mean, even for the Fukushima disaster, I could only find reference to India sending some woolen clothes and blankets for the humanitarian relief efforts. Not what you’d expect of a real great friend of their Asia-Pacific neighbors let alone a security guarantor.
Any defense materiel they would buy from us, they’re more than likely buying it just to one-up Pakistan - not to support some broader US goals around Indo-Pacific theater stability. Plus, given how much Russian hardware they operate, I’m guessing their airfields, naval bases, and depots are just crawling with Russian-affiliated contract maintainers and slick haired sales guys named Ivan. Not a great situation to drop in any large-dollar US airframe procurement, even if it’s “just a 4th gen” aircraft. I know we already sold them P-8Is.
Just my $0.02.
You might want to do a little more digging. Interestingly, if you ask an Indian Naval Officer what the majority of their surface combatants are, they'll tell you they are Indian made. Wikipedia's OOB seems to agree, of course with the various Russian and European exceptions. But those seem to be in the minority now.
Very true, and historically, a very Indian trait. But when you have over billion in your population, being your own island can be a viable option.
I've wondered about this and don't know a definitive answer, but at the same time, the Indians are not the Saudis. They have their own educated and trained Mx personnel. Also, something to keep in mind is that the P-8I wasn't a FMS case, just a direct sale, which was met with much disappointment. That's why India seems to be much more interested in procuring hardware (including more P-8s) through FMS to get the full package, along with of course any counter to the Belt and Road.
India isn’t really a close ally, and we shouldn’t be selling them too much of anything. Change my mind.
I started typing up a bunch and realized it may not be in the best interest to post all of it. With that said, I'll leave with these thoughts:
- I don't think we are counting on them for some of the above described missions. However, the Indian Ocean is vast. Name other ways for us to access it for long periods of time or have a partner who does/can. Outside of Diego, you can't. Guess what? Belt and Road is in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and Africa. That water-space is important and increasingly becoming more important.
- Our worldviews are aligned on who is the good guy and who is the bad guy as far as I can tell.
- The P-8I has been an ENORMOUS help in terms of getting friendly with them... like, more than anyone here can imagine. I speak from personal experience. While I have no idea if it was or wasn;t FMS (I'll believe @Gatordev ), the results have been what FAOs dream of when they do FMS in terms of interoperability, relationship building, and desired partnerships. I used to think selling American hardware was pennywise and pound foolish until I saw the nearly immediate effects the P-8 sales had on our partnership. I am convinced that selling more hardware to them will strengthen and bring together India and the US even more.