Most definately. UFL is now UFG, and if that kicks off there will be fun to be had for all our friends.
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Since no one else will ask "Where are the carriers?"
- Thread starter Fog
- Start date
Most definately. UFL is now UFG, and if that kicks off there will be fun to be had for all our friends.
Yup, the Warpigs will immediately have all the vast NKorean fleet's submarines detected & pinpointed, their TAD checks cashed & soaking in their hotsie' baths... before the mighty CVNs arrive on station!
"Where do we get such men & women?"
BzB
I don't get it, what would a CVN bring to the fight right now that the USAF doesn't have in theater already other than numbers? A better protected base but that is about it right now, even less when compared to some USAF assets. As much as I make fun of our brethren in light blue I don't doubt their ability to take on the DPRK. There are tens of thousands of US military personnel in the region ready to rumble if lil' Kim wants to, a carrier would be nothing more than a muted political statement right now that would only feed the ego of the little dictator and his cronies as Brett already alluded.
My comments were pointed at FOG. Suffice it to say that I interface with some key decision-makers on a daily basis and they're not making a mountain out of this mole hill. There's enough open source reporting that indicates that the posture of the DPRK's military hasn't changed significantly. So if we agree that this is purely a rhetorical adventure, why would we give Kim more attention than he rates - I.E. exactly what he's looking for. We've sent enough signals to let Kim know we can reach out and touch him if he gets frosty. The opportunity cost of throwing a CVN or two his way doesn't make much sense, and is ultimately counterproductive to a pathway to de-escalation.
So the answer to FOG's question RE the carriers is: Right where they should be.
I thought you were directing your thoughts at our senior DoD leaders who did the B-2 show of force the other day. At least you weren't criticizing senior leadership!
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Don't we already have a ton of Army troops on the border of the DMZ already, along with AF and Navy assets nearby in Japan? I was under the impression that a carrier is used to bring forces where we aren't, not where we already are.
That and Mr. Kim is looking for any aggressive act by us as an excuse to escalate his escapades.
That and Mr. Kim is looking for any aggressive act by us as an excuse to escalate his escapades.
Ask and you shall receive....
USS Nimitz gets underway.
EVERETT, Wash. (March 30, 2013) The aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) passes by Mt. Baker as it departs for a scheduled deployment from its homeport, Naval Station Everett. Nimitz will complete its sustainment exercise off the coast of Southern California before continuing on its western Pacific Deployment. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Nathan Lockwood/Released) 130330-N-AE328-026
And it ain't going to linger in 7th Fleet. It's actually late for it's normally scheduled deployment to support OEF.Ask and you shall receive....
USS Nimitz gets underway.
EVERETT, Wash. (March 30, 2013) The aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) passes by Mt. Baker as it departs for a scheduled deployment from its homeport, Naval Station Everett. Nimitz will complete its sustainment exercise off the coast of Southern California before continuing on its western Pacific Deployment. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Nathan Lockwood/Released) 130330-N-AE328-026
Yup, the Warpigs will immediately have all the vast NKorean fleet's submarines detected & pinpointed, their TAD checks cashed & soaking in their hotsie' baths... before the mighty CVNs arrive on station!
"Where do we get such men & women?"
BzB
Soapies for all my friends!
Second this.
Do we really think N. K. is going to go full retard? They may keep their people in the dark but KJU knows full well what would happen. This is nothing more than flexing and posturing.
No doubt they are being indignant over the nuke stuff, but they aren't going to start a major shooting war.
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#/video/world/2013/04/02/tsr-foreman-magic-wall-north-korea.cnn) says there are 1.1 MIL active duty troops, 5 MIL in reserve. 600 or so combat air craft, and 43 ships. But only gives cursory mention to the fact that 1.1 MIL N.K. troops =/= 1.1 MIL US troops.
We saw what happened in Iraq '91. That was supposedly 5th largest army in the world.
JMHO, but we would be sadly mistaken to compare the fighting ability (or lack thereof) of the Iraqi army to that of the North Koreans. If they come - and I also don't think they will - they will fight ferociously. Ask any living vet of the Korean War what that fight was like. 60 years later, they may be no better fed, but they are much better trained & equipped (in the land-war phase). If they come & we don't go nuclear, it will be a very bloody fight and won't be quick. JMO.
The Norks went “Full Retard” a long time ago.
It’s not clear who is calling the shots (it aint the chubby kid). North Korea fluctuates between desperation and disaster. When thing get closer to disaster we see this type of behavior. This could be them attempting to hold the west hostage for aid and an easing of sanctions or something worse. It’s my belief that we should be preparing for something worse. We’ve never seen this behavior from them and more importantly we’ve never seen this much ChiCom opposition to their behavior. Something is different this time around.
It’s not clear who is calling the shots (it aint the chubby kid). North Korea fluctuates between desperation and disaster. When thing get closer to disaster we see this type of behavior. This could be them attempting to hold the west hostage for aid and an easing of sanctions or something worse. It’s my belief that we should be preparing for something worse. We’ve never seen this behavior from them and more importantly we’ve never seen this much ChiCom opposition to their behavior. Something is different this time around.
I dont discount they would fight ferociously... and I have every bit of respect for how they performed in the War, that said its a much different game now.
The Iraqi military was billed the same way in '91. These guys were supposed to be experts of desert warfare, and battle hardened after 10 years of constant war with Iran, with decently modern equipment. Hundreds of T-62s with a good number of T-72s. Not the top of the line models, but nothing to scoff at.
N. Korea has isolated itself from nearly the entire world for 50 years. So while Iraq had the benefit of obtaining halfway up to date equipment, Korea has stagnated. No doubt they have some smart folks, doing some advanced things over there. They are testing nuclear weapons after all. But to say we should consider them a significant conventional threat? I don't. Nuclear power? Sure, but they still have unreliable delivery systems. The US isn't at risk. Maybe S. Korea or Japan, but launching a nuke doesnt gain them anything. A nuclear attack would unify the entire world against them and it would be game over.
My argument is not that the US would win the shooting war, though I think we could depending on the definition of "win", but rather N. Korea for all their big talk, has absolutely no interest in getting into that shooting war to begin with.
As Brett said they are begging for attention. We can respond with TBMD platforms which provide the security the situation demands, and still hold back on our carriers so we don't upset the situation. Every country in the world understands that we use our CVNs as a tool for sending diplomatic messages. Sending the CVNs in now would give N. Korea the satisfaction of a big response, which does nothing other than encourage them in the future.
The Iraqi military was billed the same way in '91. These guys were supposed to be experts of desert warfare, and battle hardened after 10 years of constant war with Iran, with decently modern equipment. Hundreds of T-62s with a good number of T-72s. Not the top of the line models, but nothing to scoff at.
N. Korea has isolated itself from nearly the entire world for 50 years. So while Iraq had the benefit of obtaining halfway up to date equipment, Korea has stagnated. No doubt they have some smart folks, doing some advanced things over there. They are testing nuclear weapons after all. But to say we should consider them a significant conventional threat? I don't. Nuclear power? Sure, but they still have unreliable delivery systems. The US isn't at risk. Maybe S. Korea or Japan, but launching a nuke doesnt gain them anything. A nuclear attack would unify the entire world against them and it would be game over.
My argument is not that the US would win the shooting war, though I think we could depending on the definition of "win", but rather N. Korea for all their big talk, has absolutely no interest in getting into that shooting war to begin with.
As Brett said they are begging for attention. We can respond with TBMD platforms which provide the security the situation demands, and still hold back on our carriers so we don't upset the situation. Every country in the world understands that we use our CVNs as a tool for sending diplomatic messages. Sending the CVNs in now would give N. Korea the satisfaction of a big response, which does nothing other than encourage them in the future.
4 of which have FOD'd out motors, so call it a section. ;-)