Staying Navy?

[bunk22]

I just got out this past September with a little over 13 years active service and making about 110K (this includes all benefits). To go from that with the strong potential to make less than half of that is pretty frightening to say the least. I knew that whatever new career I got into, I wanted it to be in some sort of sales. I wanted....or shall I dare to say, needed....to have some level of control over how much money I make.

There is something to be said about the peace of mind one has when they can expect a certain amount of money to be deposited in their bank account on a bi-weekly basis. However, there's also something to be said for the freedom you have when operating as an entrepeneur. Yes, it's more risky no doubt. But just like in the military, you acknowledge the risk and put various controls in place to mitigate the hazzards.

I've been told many times just how stupid I was for getting out and that I should have suffered through the remaining years for that covetted retirement check each month. Sorry, but my sanity isn't for sale. What I politely explain to people is that barring any national emergency or homeland invasions (illegal immigrants don't count), my daughter needs me as a father more than the navy needs me as a department head. I have yet to come across someone to continue calling my decision stupid after that. And really, what it comes down do is that people who think it's stupid to get out after 12, 14, 16+ years are just weak minded. They think in a single plane and cannot fathom working for themselves or being successfull without some company to back them up.

I've heard people say, "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." Yea, what a crock! There will be some times that anything you do for a living will be work. It may be fun, but hard work and discipline doesn't just disappear from existence.

Yes, there are many friggin opportunities out there to be seized and even created.

Agreed. I'm lucky in that I got my current set of orders, a really good deal which doesn't happen often. That certainly helps to keep me sane for the moment. However, I'm in until almost 17 years via orders/contract. I think anytime after 15 years, it's tough to turn down a retirement check. That could be money for the daughter when she goes through school or can be used for investing or the house payment. It's like a 401k without putting money in, though broken up in payments over the rest of your life. However, looking at the potential of my brother-in-law and what I saw from the average take home in that business, is also hard to pass up (an average of about $400k/yr by the 3rd year). Though you work long hours every day, you're home and as long as you don't live beyond your means, life can be good financially. To live well and have your children live well is certainly a worthwhile goal. I've done in the Navy what I came in to do and if I they offered me an early retirement tomorrow, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

 

[Pitchlock]

I had pretty much decided the navy wasn't for me on second day, but I didn't get out for another 9 years. I kept hoping it would get better. For me it never really did. As background I'm an academy grad and was a P3 pilot.

My problem was I'm smart enough to be an officer/pilot but my temperment is much better suited to an e worklife. In other words I enjoy hands on work much more than adminstrative work. I would rather help change the tire. I don't mind being in charge, but I like to be able to jump in and SHOW how its done. As a Maint Div O all I did was route chits and write evals - I hated it.

It turns out that the world of high-tech suits me very well. I've never been motivated by money, but it sure doesn't hurt to have it. Mostly I like working on challenging problems which have a quick feed back loop.

I have a perfect love/hate relationship with the Navy. I'm glad I did it, and glad I don't have to do it again. I learned alot, but I never felt it fullfilled my particular potential.

That said I have academy buddies that love the navy, don't want to retire. So who knows....maybe this will help:

"The early bird gets the worm, but the late mouse gets the cheese"
Are you a bird or a mouse? Do you like worms or cheese? Answer these questions young grasshopper and all will be clear.

 

[greysword]

If I may add my little morsal of advice to the discussion:

If you decide active duty is not for you and leave active service, please join the Reserves.

The reasons behind this sentiment has many facets:

1) You already have the time invested in a military retirement, why not finish the requirement and get a pension (of some sort) for your efforts at age 60? You can get it out of the way upfront, and still reap the benefits later.

2) The Reserve component is much different than the active duty environment.

- Meeting once each month is an easy commitment, and the Reserves bend over backwards to accomodate your civilian life (reschedules of drill days, not drilling on 3-day weekends, allowing the service member to call in and cancel their weekend if you can't make it, you determine when you can do your 2-weeks per year AT).

- Things are formal in the Reserves, but they are loose as well. This is hard to explain, but I will try. Expectations are that you come in ont he weekend and work hard, but then leave and not worry about it until the next drill. You don't have to brood about poor management, because it is only for a couple days. The command are also drilling reservists, so they don't heave too much pressure on their charges.

3) Drilling maintains contact with the Navy and allows you to have the comradarie that you rarely get in the civilian world. The Navy is a culture and a way of life. As a former active member, you already know the rules of the game, and it can be comforting at times to immerse yourself back into a known element.

4) You will get to do some good for the Navy and the country. After each drill weekend, I go back to my average job feeling like I accomplished something good for the Navy and the USA. Our production is being used by the warfighters, and it is nice to be able to contribute, even if it was in a small way.

5) The monetary gains are great for such small cost in time. Not only will you get four days of pay for work the two days per month (calculate your current active duty base pay on a daily basis and multiply by 4 to get your potential gross income), but you will still have access to the Commissary (my family saves over $100 per month over WalMart grocery prices), Exchange, MWR, and other discounts local merchants have. In addition, if you sign up for six years, you can get a reserve version of the GI Bill in addition to the Montgomery GI Bill. This isn't as much, but may take you over the top for an advanced degree.

6) You are rarely limited on your 2-weeks annual commitment duty station. The opportunities are endless for reservists to fill their annual commitment. Some examples I know of are to work on the USS Constitution as a crew member, go to a US embassy in another country, a myriad of Naval exercises to assist the active component, go to a spot where you may want your family to vacation like Hawaii (the Navy will pay for your ticket, hotel, and meals so the out of pocket expense is for your family), joint service activities, Fleet Week support around the country, and others. Because you have civilian credentials as well as military ones, the Navy can send you place to do things that an active duty person may not be able to pull off.

7) Time goes by fast, the BS is limited (compared to active duty), you still have many of the benefits from the military (Commissary, Exchange, JAG access, medical (shots, dental insurance, MWR, Family Service Center, Base access, etc), and best of all no matter what happens in your civilian career, you will have some sort of pension to augment your retirement (with full medical, drug, dental, and other benefits) the active duty retirees enjoy.

8) Porsche payment

I'd say my greatest regret in my life was not joining the Reserves immediately after getting out to attend college. I would be retired in two years had I done that. The good news is that I did join last year, and I will now be retired in 10 years from now at age 47, which still isn't bad.

 

[CaliStyle]

The reserves sound like an excellent idea in theory. However, there is the down side of being activated and interupting your civilian career and life plans. With the way the military is utilized right now (GWOT, IA's, Surges), it seems like serving in the reserves gives one a high likelihood of being on active duty again which can be a bad thing depending on one's life situation.

 

[Intruder Driver]

The reserves sound like an excellent idea in theory. However, there is the down side of being activated and interupting your civilian career and life plans. With the way the military is utilized right now (GWOT, IA's, Surges), it seems like serving in the reserves gives one a high likelihood of being on active duty again which can be a bad thing depending on one's life situation.

Go the IRR route. No drills, just correspondence courses, and your chance of being recalled is almost zero, especially if you are an aviator.

 

[Pugs]

Go the IRR route. No drills, just correspondence courses, and your chance of being recalled is almost zero, especially if you are an aviator.

Takes about 20 hours a year of work on courses to get a sat year FWIW. I finished my last two this way. Might be those that can do it in less but I took courses that interested me. I also had four involuntary recalls to AD when I drilled, all flying, but disruptive never the less.

 

[Intruder Driver]

You're right Pugs. I spent about two hours a month on courses. Pretty easy way to get 50 points.

 

[Islandhopper]

There is also a fairly new message out that states that if you affiliate with the reserves within 6 months of getting off active duty, you are eligible for a 2 year reprieve from activation.

 

[greysword]

Go the IRR route. No drills, just correspondence courses, and your chance of being recalled is almost zero, especially if you are an aviator.

I'm not sure this works for the enlisted side, sir.

With the way the military is utilized right now (GWOT, IA's, Surges), it seems like serving in the reserves gives one a high likelihood of being on active duty again which can be a bad thing depending on one's life situation.

Activation is possible, of course, this is the reason for the Reserve component. Navy Reserves are not being called up as much as Army. Of course, it depends on your rate. MA and SeaBees are getting called up faster than most other rates. Many Navy rates get a general billet recall to help with convoys, supply or something like that. Given the number of reservists, you may get called once for general duties. Some jobs are not subject to general billet recall, and only if they need your skills would you go.

If you are curious about the Reserves, go talk to a Navy reserve unit, especially one that has ETs. Of course if you are young enough, you could get out and enter ROTC in college to keep continuity.

Oh, and if you decide to get out for good and find a civilian job, you will not loose your job for being deployed. The current engagements may be over by then, as well.

 

[Pugs]

I'm not sure this works for the enlisted side, sir.

Activation is possible, of course, this is the reason for the Reserve component. Navy Reserves are not being called up as much as Army. Of course, it depends on your rate.

Have a cousin in country right now. ABF1 called up to run the T-line at a forward base. One the good side his fire department gives him a bunch of extra bonus points when he gets back so he's likely to be a Captain in the department. This was his twenth year when he got picked.

 

[Flash]

There is also a fairly new message out that states that if you affiliate with the reserves within 6 months of getting off active duty, you are eligible for a 2 year reprieve from activation.

That is affirmitave, I have it sitting in my inbox right now......

 

[Steve Wilkins]

If I may add my little morsal of advice to the discussion:

If you decide active duty is not for you and leave active service, please join the Reserves.

The reasons behind this sentiment has many facets:

1) You already have the time invested in a military retirement, why not finish the requirement and get a pension (of some sort) for your efforts at age 60? You can get it out of the way upfront, and still reap the benefits later.

2) The Reserve component is much different than the active duty environment.

- Meeting once each month is an easy commitment, and the Reserves bend over backwards to accomodate your civilian life (reschedules of drill days, not drilling on 3-day weekends, allowing the service member to call in and cancel their weekend if you can't make it, you determine when you can do your 2-weeks per year AT).

- Things are formal in the Reserves, but they are loose as well. This is hard to explain, but I will try. Expectations are that you come in ont he weekend and work hard, but then leave and not worry about it until the next drill. You don't have to brood about poor management, because it is only for a couple days. The command are also drilling reservists, so they don't heave too much pressure on their charges.

3) Drilling maintains contact with the Navy and allows you to have the comradarie that you rarely get in the civilian world. The Navy is a culture and a way of life. As a former active member, you already know the rules of the game, and it can be comforting at times to immerse yourself back into a known element.

4) You will get to do some good for the Navy and the country. After each drill weekend, I go back to my average job feeling like I accomplished something good for the Navy and the USA. Our production is being used by the warfighters, and it is nice to be able to contribute, even if it was in a small way.

5) The monetary gains are great for such small cost in time. Not only will you get four days of pay for work the two days per month (calculate your current active duty base pay on a daily basis and multiply by 4 to get your potential gross income), but you will still have access to the Commissary (my family saves over $100 per month over WalMart grocery prices), Exchange, MWR, and other discounts local merchants have. In addition, if you sign up for six years, you can get a reserve version of the GI Bill in addition to the Montgomery GI Bill. This isn't as much, but may take you over the top for an advanced degree.

6) You are rarely limited on your 2-weeks annual commitment duty station. The opportunities are endless for reservists to fill their annual commitment. Some examples I know of are to work on the USS Constitution as a crew member, go to a US embassy in another country, a myriad of Naval exercises to assist the active component, go to a spot where you may want your family to vacation like Hawaii (the Navy will pay for your ticket, hotel, and meals so the out of pocket expense is for your family), joint service activities, Fleet Week support around the country, and others. Because you have civilian credentials as well as military ones, the Navy can send you place to do things that an active duty person may not be able to pull off.

7) Time goes by fast, the BS is limited (compared to active duty), you still have many of the benefits from the military (Commissary, Exchange, JAG access, medical (shots, dental insurance, MWR, Family Service Center, Base access, etc), and best of all no matter what happens in your civilian career, you will have some sort of pension to augment your retirement (with full medical, drug, dental, and other benefits) the active duty retirees enjoy.

8) Porsche payment

I'd say my greatest regret in my life was not joining the Reserves immediately after getting out to attend college. I would be retired in two years had I done that. The good news is that I did join last year, and I will now be retired in 10 years from now at age 47, which still isn't bad.

Here's my take as a former XO of a reserve center as well as a former XO of a reserve unit:

The reserve component IS much much different than the active component. As an officer the expectation is NOT that you do jack sh!t between drill periods, unless you're an O-4 or O-5 without a billet and/or you are in the IRR or VTU. Senior enlisted (E-6 and above with some E-5's mixed in) as well as officers are expected to perform even between drill periods.

The bottom line is do not join the reserves if you are not ready and willing to be called up to active duty at a moments notice. It is not a place to drink coffee two days out of the month and collect a paycheck.

 

[greysword]

Here's my take as a former XO of a reserve center as well as a former XO of a reserve unit:

The reserve component IS much much different than the active component. As an officer the expectation is NOT that you do jack sh!t between drill periods, unless you're an O-4 or O-5 without a billet and/or you are in the IRR or VTU. Senior enlisted (E-6 and above with some E-5's mixed in) as well as officers are expected to perform even between drill periods.

The bottom line is do not join the reserves if you are not ready and willing to be called up to active duty at a moments notice. It is not a place to drink coffee two days out of the month and collect a paycheck.

Yes sir, I agree and I apologize if I left the impression that the Reserves is a two day per month goof-off session.

As an E-4, I have spent several hours between drills working on the current project. Usually, it accounts for about 6-8 additional hours per month. In addition, we are reminded that the possibility of activation is very real, however, it is still a possibility and not a certainty like our Army and marine counterparts. Activation for the Navy Reserves seem to be individual assignments instead of whole unit deployments, which increases the chance of not being activated (they are taking volunteers first, then assigning other orders as requested).

The Navy Reserves are becoming very good at preparing us for activation if the order comes. We recently had the Lieutenant responsible for ensuring all activations go smoothly speak to our unit, and they are making all possible efforts to inform the service members at least two months out if possible. Last weekend, we had representatives from Tricare, the VA, JAG, and Navy One-Source come for Saturday afternoon and speak to us and our spouses about what we can expect and how to navigate some potential hurdles. (I think my wife saw how excited I was on drill and the respect I have from my command, because she told me the other day I could go active again if I wanted ).

We work preety hard to ensure those in theater jhave the information they need to succeed and act as support for active units with holes in their rosters due to committments in the Middle East.

In all, I think the Reserves are rewarding. I feel energized when I return to work after a drill weekend, and the benefots are awesome as well.

 

[Beefalo]

I want to thank everyone for their input. I am still undecided as what to do but will continue to walk the thin line between working hard to be successful in the Navy and working hard to be successful outside of the Navy. Leaning more towards getting out. If I ever do get out I do plan on joining the reserves.