Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation (Part 3)

[Brett327]

Yeah, it's called the P-8.

SIGINT? Nope.

 

[jackjack]

The Aussies are going to use the G-550, fitted out by L3 for some stuff. If the P-8 was going SIGINT like the EP-3. I would have thought, we would have followed.

 

[ea6bflyr]

SIGINT? Nope.

Well it wont be a direct one-for-one replacement. P-8 + Triton = ~EP-3. At least from my understanding, it'll be like the F/A-18 replacing the A-6E....good enough for government work.

 

[Brett327]

Triton, yes (perhaps?). P-8 EW capes are nowhere near what would be required to consider that a credible replacement. Anecdotally, VP doesn't even train to adequately employ the EW capes they currently have and there's very little community expertise to facilitate that.

 

[SynixMan]

Admittedly knowing nothing about the EP-3, I wouldn't be surprised if Congress found its deprecation unacceptable long term. The Air Force got the Global Express E-11 BACN on quick notice.

 

[cfam]

Triton, yes (perhaps?). P-8 EW capes are nowhere near what would be required to consider that a credible replacement. Anecdotally, VP doesn't even train to adequately employ the EW capes they currently have and there's very little community expertise to facilitate that.

I'd be curious to see if the resident P-8 bubbas still think EW training is an issue. It certainly was when I was where you're at (based on my conversations with the MPRWS folks), but it was an acknowledged deficiency that they were working to correct. Based on flying with several crews in the FRTC, the biggest issue I saw was a willingness to take everything at face value and a lack of understanding of system limitations.

I'd be hard pressed to believe that even the Triton P-8 combination can truly replace the EP-3. Regardless of the system specifics, you still end up trading a ton of community ESM expertise for an automated ESM suite.

 

[Brett327]

It's going to be more of a tactical capability than national collection.

 

[cfam]

It's going to be more of a tactical capability than national collection.

I'll be curious to see where Triton is at when I get back to the fleet, because there were so many unknowns when I was last briefed on it. I get the tactical capability piece versus national, my point was more towards the loss of the SIGINT knowledge base inherent to the VQ community.

 

[Flash]

Well it wont be a direct one-for-one replacement. P-8 + Triton = ~EP-3. At least from my understanding, it'll be like the F/A-18 replacing the A-6E....good enough for government work.

Nope, not even close, even for government work.

Based on flying with several crews in the FRTC, the biggest issue I saw was a willingness to take everything at face value and a lack of understanding of system limitations.

I'd be hard pressed to believe that even the Triton P-8 combination can truly replace the EP-3. Regardless of the system specifics, you still end up trading a ton of community ESM expertise for an automated ESM suite.

The EW experience will likely quickly whither away after the EP-3 goes away and the experienced VQ folks disperse and move on, the O's and E's. I think training, mainly taking at face value what the box tells you without a background in whether or not it makes sense, will be the biggest issue with the Triton and its crews. If you have experienced crews along with knowledgable and dedicated support folks to maintain the magic boxes and make them work, like the ES-3 guys, they could work well. I just don't see that happening in the real world with the Triton, no matter the sales pitch.

It's going to be more of a tactical capability than national collection.

It can be both if they want to do both.

Admittedly knowing nothing about the EP-3, I wouldn't be surprised if Congress found its deprecation unacceptable long term. The Air Force got the Global Express E-11 BACN on quick notice.

I think it is too low a hanging fruit for Congress to care enough, they've got bigger alligators closer to the boat. The E-11 is a bit of a different animal, fulfilling a unique need that needed to be filled rapidly.

I think it is just the latest in a long line of poor decisions made by folks when it comes to airborne EW in the US military. The EP-3 was always a bit of a stepchild in the Navy but long had a big patron outside the Navy always helping out, but a lot of that support has withered to a degree over the past few years much to the chagrin of some folks who still have some fucks left to give. So even though it is still hanging on I doubt the current reprieve will last more than a few years.

 

[Brett327]

It can be both if they want to do both.

I have no idea what capes Triton will bring to that end. I suspect NTM and RJ will pick up a lot of the slack.

 

[Flash]

I have no idea what capes Triton will bring to that end. I suspect NTM and RJ will pick up a lot of the slack.

Not really if there is nothing to replace the EP-3. It is all about 'acceptable risk', similar to the U-2 are we willing to accept a diminished capacity if we retire a certain asset. With the U-2 the answer was very nearly yes, but in addition to its capability it has considerable political pull and even a good amount of cachet going for it so the answer has become no, for now. For the ES-3 the answer was a flat no and the capability went away without anything to replace it. Now it is the same with the EP-3, the Navy doesn't want to spend the money to replace it so it'll almost certainly go away without a good replacement. Just don't expect something else to take up the slack.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Not really if there is nothing to replace the EP-3. It is all about 'acceptable risk', similar to the U-2 are we willing to accept a diminished capacity if we retire a certain asset. With the U-2 the answer was very nearly yes, but in addition to its capability it has considerable political pull and even a good amount of cachet going for it so the answer has become no, for now. For the ES-3 the answer was a flat no and the capability went away without anything to replace it. Now it is the same with the EP-3, the Navy doesn't want to spend the money to replace it so it'll almost certainly go away without a good replacement. Just don't expect something else to take up the slack.

Yep, it may take years before someone recognizes the true inpact of getting rid of this Special Mission aircraft without replacement.

 

[Scimitarze]

Are Hornet Balls actual fun or mandatory fun?

 

[Brett327]

So many different directions you could take that question.

 

[HAL Pilot]

So many different directions you could take that question.

But you being the PC senior officer you are, you would never put your career in jeopardy making one. I mean, why waste the pucker ability and gag reflex you spent years developing saying something funny or even.... gasp....slightly inappropriate in public?