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Stupid questions about Naval Aviation (Pt 2)
- Thread starter mo7stanley
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MasterBates
Well-Known Member
60 Max AOB per NATOPS.
+0.5 to +2.0g per commodore.
Why, was my break just as the WX rolled in THAT scary looking?
+0.5 to +2.0g per commodore.
Why, was my break just as the WX rolled in THAT scary looking?
The NFO ones don't. Don't know about the B models.
From the looks of this picture and article some delivered to the Navy this summer will be painted in clown colors. My guess is the civil registration is temporary while the testing is done by Hawker Beechcraft.
Pill_Hacker said:
Toured the new T-6B aircraft issue and PR shack on wed - said there will be two of them delivered in about 2 weeks and yes they will have the utterly refined candy corn paint scheme.
BTW we already have a T-6B sim and CPT - space age shit compared to the mighty 2B37 trainer.
For those of you that think you will be entering training about a year from now, here is some more info on the T-6B:
http://www.hawkerbeechcraft.com/military/t-6b/HB0825T6BroRebrand2%20FINAL.pdf
Pill_Hacker said:
I don't pretend to know anything of the specific case of the F-4, but any aircraft that departs controlled flight will be unrecoverable if the departure happens too low to the ground. Certain aircraft, by virtue of the layout and sizing of their flight control surfaces, can be unrecoverable in certain departure modes because they don't have the control power to kick the pointy end back into the wind. Sometimes the disturbed airflow blanks out the control surface entirely (F-16 deep-stall comes to mind), which makes recovery "interesting" if not impossible.
On modern, aerodynamically-unstable aircraft, like the Rhino, a multiple flight control computer failure could cause an unrecoverable departure.
Pill_Hacker said:
PropAddict is on track. There are other issues too, like masking of the flight controls. Even if the flight control is big enough, if wind can't get to it, it ain't going to help.
Control rigging and CG are two others that can causes issues. The T-tail Arrow has a problem w/ CG because the tail isn't in the prop wash and if the CG is too far aft, there's not enough control authority (kind of goes along w/ what Propaddict said).
Rigging is the big issue in the T-34. The airframe is very forgiving when it comes to departures, especially w/ the installation of the ventral fins (helps w/ that airflow thing), but when the rigging isn't right, coupled w/ a bent airframe (and sometimes CG issues), it either will not enter some regimes or sometimes won't come out. I know of several guys who were doing spins or progressive spins in the MOA and the planes wouldn't stop spinning. One guy added power (per NATOPS) and it popped out, which happens from time to time and isn't the end of the world, but another guy went from 17K' down to about 7K' before it finally decided to pop out. He did three attempts, added power, everything according to NATOPS, but the way the plane was rigged, a normal recovery procedure wasn't enough. Finally he just jammed the stick WAY far forward and it popped, but as he was doing this, he and his IUT were getting ready to jump. I think they finally were recovered around 5K', but needless to say they came straight home.
Turns out when a T-34 isn't rigged properly, it was common practice for the maintenance pilots to do what this guy did, just unload the plane. However, it was never written anywhere, so all everyone knows to do is just add power. Not sure if it made it into the last NATOPS change (w/ the fuel/gear EP stuff), but it was supposed to go into the OCF FTI.
Unrecoverable due to altitude isn't the same as saying an aircraft is unrecoverable when departing.
There is a warning in T-34 NATOPS saying that pushing the stick further forward, to the stop if necessary, will aid in OCF recovery.
Pill_Hacker said:
Recovering from a stall is, basically, all about getting clean air flowing over the control surfaces. Intentional departures are prohibited in the Hummer because, what with the dome, pylon, and four fancy tails with relatively small rudders, there's no way in hell you're going to get enough clean air going to haev any control authority before Mr. Ground gets way too close. Plus, if you decide that recovery ain't happening, it's a bad scene having everybody stumbling to the MEH and trying to bail out when you're stalled/spinning.
More than one E-2 pilot has been FNAEB'ed for departing the plane.
The A-4 (as we were instructed) had a "cone of death." Basically if you hit 0 airspeed within 10 degrees of vertical it could go into an unrecoverable departure. The F-14 had spin modes that were unrecoverable. The good part was that they typically would progress so the pilot would become incapacitated anyway.
There you go, guess it made it in there. Of course I'm sure I knew that what with still being Natops Qual'ed in model and all. Yup, completely safe and read up here.... <shifty eyes>
(C420, I'm mocking me, not you, in case you weren't sure).
Pill_Hacker said:
Don't know a lot of details about aero of departures / why some modes would be unrecoverable beyond the general stuff that was mentioned. I DO know that you have to know OCF boldface like it's the names of your wife and children for the following reason:
Pulling out @ 5k...
Actually ... we always gave it -- that configuration -- to one another during the course of a NATOPS check; it was a 'standard' encounter in Adversary ACM -- if not technically a 'book' tactic -- and it was regularly, if not 'frequently' encountered in the ACM arena, being a regular player in the Topgun Adversary training program ...
I've been straight up, zero airspeed, and sliding back down on my tailpipe on 'more than one occasion' ... it was a confidence builder.
The result: no drips, runs, errors .... or spins.
I've been straight up, zero airspeed, and sliding back down on my tailpipe on 'more than one occasion' ... it was a confidence builder.
Sounds like the beginning of a good hammerhead. . .
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