sued for stopping illegals

[gaijin6423]

Illegals in Yodaville equals no training. We had to shut down the range once while our pals with the Border Patrol stormed the place. And the FAC who made a comment along the lines of, "Why stop? Let's blow the hell out of them," got all kinds of words from guys with silver eagles on their collars. The illegals in question were, however, mostly dead already, so it probably would have saved a few grand in medical care.

 

[Flash]

I don't understand why people in Mexico can't just do it legally. Its not easy but its not impossible either.

It is actually a giant pain in the ass. Part of what is lost in the immigration debate is just how hard it is sometimes to come into this country legally. It certainly ain't as easy as many people think.

 

[wink]

Quid enim sanctius, quid omni religione munitius, quam domus unusquisque civium?

Cicero

Arizona Senate Bill 1145
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/47leg/2r/laws/0199.htm
Signed into law April 2006

Somebody walks onto your property, tries to hurt you, you can kill them...pretty straight forward to me.

(Damn you Hobie...you type faster than me)

No that is not completely true. Said person has to try to hurt you REAL bad. "Serious bodily injury". In point of fact, you had better be afraid for your life. The only reason the term serious bodily injury is used is because an ordinary citizen can not know what type of injuries or assaults may be deadly. And don't forget, all this is as a reasonable man would see it. So if Jose breaks into your ranch house looking for food or water and you find him in the kitchen, unarmed, and you shoot him as he stands there, you are probably going to jail.

You have linked to the legislative bill. Try looking at the actual statues. That is what the prosecutor will look at. Check out ALL that apply. Make note of the fact that some statutes refer to "threats" of deadly force, not use of deadly force. Others refer back to the statute that justifies deadly force. The new statue you linked to only codified that the same authorized use of deadly force used on a street was also applied to a home. It also changed the burden of proof in defense of a justifiable use of deadly force. That was in response to a rash of home invasion robberies. But you still must be in fear for your life or that of another. It is an essential element of the justification whether you are in your home, car or the Circle K.

This is all you need to know.

ARS 13-405. Justification; use of deadly physical force

A person is justified in threatening or using deadly physical force against another:

1. If such person would be justified in threatening or using physical force against the other under section 13-404, and

2. When and to the degree a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly physical force.

ARS 13-406. Justification; defense of a third person

A person is justified in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force against another to protect a third person if:

1. Under the circumstances as a reasonable person would believe them to be, such person would be justified under section 13-404 or 13-405 in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force to protect himself against the unlawful physical force or deadly physical force a reasonable person would believe is threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and

2. A reasonable person would believe that such person's intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

Surf around here http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/00406.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS
chapter four title 13. Nowhere will you see that it is lawful to kill someone for trespassing, or simply breaking into your home. You don't shoot people over property or trespass. Not in AZ or most any other state.

 

[torpedo0126]

Stupid things like 9-11-2001?

We could have prevented the political and economic mess caused by our (all but) open borders policy from yesteryear....but we waited too long.

I don't remember any of the 9-11 terrorists being linked with Mexican immigration, but I could be wrong. There is nothing wrong with keeping track of who is coming across your borders, but its stupid and a waste of money to try and prevent peaceful workers from immigrating.

Also, I find it hard to believe that the open borders caused our "economic mess." In fact, back when immigration laws were legal Mexican immigrants would migrate. They would come during the harvest, and then go back to Mexico. It followed the business cycle, when jobs were open they came, and then when they were no longer needed they went back to Mexico.

When tougher immigration laws were passed, migratory workers were no longer permitted and this created a scramble to get across the border and a consequent increase in illegal immigration.

If your trying to imply that Mexican immigrants steal American jobs, this is pretty much false. The jobs they take are low-skilled, low-pay, non-unionized, often terrible conditions. California (both Republicans and Democrats) routinely grant clemency to illegal immigrants because they are so important to the economy.

I am not advocating illegal immigration in anyway. I think we should thoroughly keep track of who is entering the borders. If you relax immigration standards somewhat I think you will avert a lot of these problems, and actually probably cut down on "terrorist" immigration.

 

[torpedo0126]

Are YOU a goddamn fool?? Or just totally fucking stupid??

YOU and your attitude(s) are part of the problem ... get a clue or get the fuck out.

I wasn't advocating illegal immigration at all?? I'm completely for knowing who comes into our country.

There is nothing wrong with allowing people into the country, as long as they aren't "bad." If you relax the immigration standards you will have "good" people crossing the border normally, and the "bad" people trying to sneak across.

We are a nation of immigrants, remember.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Without recognition of nation state borders; the key word here is not immigration or emigration, but totally unchecked migration... we need frootpickers and ditchdiggers... hell, we've got lotso folks on welfare that could frootpick if we could just get them off their lazy asses to earn a paycheck, but then again why would they...

Get welfare leeches to work, jobs illegal migrants do would be taken by citizens... no jobs=no economic opportunity=minimal need to mine our southern border...

some of the illegals make me believe the american dream is alive and well, some of our "citizens" and domestic politics are f***ing killing it. :icon_rage

 

[scoolbubba]

more ridiculousness and tomfoolery on the immigration front:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/09/liberians.deportation/index.html

Hardworking people who did it the right way and followed the rules, made a life for themselves and contributed to the economy in a positive way get the ole heave ho. How bout clemency for these guys? oh wait...you don't qualify for clemency unless you broke the law.

 

[torpedo0126]

Without recognition of nation state borders; the key word here is not immigration or emigration, but totally unchecked migration... we need frootpickers and ditchdiggers... hell, we've got lotso folks on welfare that could frootpick if we could just get them off their lazy asses to earn a paycheck, but then again why would they...

Get welfare leeches to work, jobs illegal migrants do would be taken by citizens... no jobs=no economic opportunity=minimal need to mine our southern border...

some of the illegals make me believe the american dream is alive and well, some of our "citizens" and domestic politics are f***ing killing it. :icon_rage

I think thats an excellent point. Also, if I recall correctly, NONE of the 9/11 hijackers were Mexican, but Arab immigrants with legal visas (not sure about all of them). Seems like we are giving Visas to the wrong people...well-educated men with intent to kill mass innocents as opposed to migratory workers looking for opportunity.

 

[statesman]

You don't shoot people over property or trespass. Not in AZ or most any other state.

Not over trespass maybe but in Texas the use of deadly force is authorized if it is reasonable to believe that burglary is the intent of the intruder.


From the Texas penal code:
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.
(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

If I have to shoot someone in my house he is a) going to be dead and b) it will be my word against his. In that case, he was coming right for me and I was more scared than I have ever been in my life.

 

[A4sForever]

We are a nation of immigrants, remember.

That's bullshit.

I was born here.

I am a "native" American.

So were my parents.

And all but one of my Grandparents.

The only ones in MY family that immigrated into this country did it through the front door ... legally.

 

[torpedo0126]

That's bullshit.

I was born here.

I am a "native" American.

So were my parents.

And all but one of my Grandparents.

The only ones in MY family that immigrated into this country did it through the front door ... legally.

I suspect you don't even know the requirements to enter and remain in the US. For starters, however, it has a lot to do with your wealth, race, and who you know.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you because you really haven't even contributed anything to the discussion except to provide anecdotal evidence that all people should have an easy time entering our country because ONE of your grandparents did.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

I heard Prince William County VA came up with a good solution to the illegal alien problem they had there...

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21703

My sis says things are better now...

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Torpedo,
I'm wincing and giggling like a little jaygee in the back of the ready room during XOI, waiting for A4s to deliver his typical 1000 kiloton bitch smack!

Do not piss on electric fences bro, it hurts.

hhhhhheeeeerrrreee it comes.... wait... wait....

 

[CWJones411]

I love immigration. I love the fact that people can bring theirfamily to my country and become American. However I don't like it when people bushwack across the desert so they can work someone else's job, not pay taxes, utilize my tax dollars and send all the money home. These people do not call themselves American and do not embrace our culture. I am fine with immigrants bringing a bit of their culture here in the form of delicious take-out food or extra holidays, but coming to my country means learning my goddamned language like I would, if I were to come to yours.