No way, that's way too many people. Maybe that percentage don't come back for the Sr's portion, but you don't drop that many. I think we may have lost 5-8 people from our platoon. Mostly from injuries (they would be qualified to come back on a later date). Don't freak yourself out. I think the one thing that gets most people through with minimal stress is knowing that "thousands have come before, done the same training, and gone on to do great and wonderful things in the Marine Corps." PT as much as possible now while you're waiting and let the rest happen when you get there.
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SULE I
- Thread starter klostman
- Start date
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What are the typical reasons people drop and why are there so many? It seems that there is some shock that most candidates were unaware of or unprepared for. I am very optomistic about OCS, but I also have to be realistic. Given the competition I am not feeling so great about the 40% drop/fail rate
. This is just one more thing that will keep me up at night.
What is the "Sr's" portion?
What is the "Sr's" portion?
Sr's (Seniors) is the second six weeks of OCS for those that do the split program. Yeah Taxman, that sounds excessive! You guys must have had a bad batch of candidates in your company. We lost 5-8 people in our platoon, I have no idea about the company figures -- not anywhere near you guys's though.
You had to have been in the split program, there aren't that many in the combined course (I'm speculating anyway, for klostman). I would like to think that the whole program was that difficult, it just makes my accomplishment look even better, but I couldn't even speculate on where that attrition number really lies.
You had to have been in the split program, there aren't that many in the combined course (I'm speculating anyway, for klostman). I would like to think that the whole program was that difficult, it just makes my accomplishment look even better, but I couldn't even speculate on where that attrition number really lies.
I didn't answer gsavy's questions:
Most dropped due to injury in our platoon. It's a lot of work and it's hard on your body. At Sr's I split my head open on one event (6 stitches), strained my achilles tendon on another event (crutches over the weekend), and broke my foot on SULE II on the washboard trail run at the end. I completed the run (which also happened to be the last physical event, except the PFT -- they used my initial)and spent the next 8 weeks on crutches. I still graduated though (I was #2 in the company which probably had a lot to do with it.). We had some real bags of trash complete the program though. A couple of those actually became awesome Marines that I was lucky enough to run into again (in my Company at TBS) and are in the Middle East now. That's something I still can't believe! I graduated TBS in June last year (Alpha) and probably half my platoon (the ones that didn't have aviation contracts anyway)is deployed right now. Wow!
Anyway, back on topic, for me the biggest shock going back was how fast you start off. You don't start over from the beginning when you go in for Sr.'s, you start right where you left off from Jr.'s. It's a real eye opener. Also, I was expecting a little less prodding from the Sgt. Instructors at Sr.'s too. I thought they took a little more passive role and really let you exercise that leadership they're supposedly grading you on, but no they rode us hard the ENTIRE six weeks. Going back to Sr's (after finishing Jr's) is harder than anything you do in either six week program. Just the action of going back. It's tough and I assure you, you'll question your motivation, but it's been damned rewarding so far and I'm still in the infant stages of training status. I've had a lot of fun, met some awesome people (peers and staff), the amount of support you have going through all phases of training (here in Whiting is amazing; from the young men and women working in the control towers to the older men and women working on our airplanes in the hangars)is astounding! I feel blessed to be apart of this, and am excited for you to be able to experience it too.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic again (studying so much really gets you emotional!)and need to take a break from the computer!
Good luck!
Most dropped due to injury in our platoon. It's a lot of work and it's hard on your body. At Sr's I split my head open on one event (6 stitches), strained my achilles tendon on another event (crutches over the weekend), and broke my foot on SULE II on the washboard trail run at the end. I completed the run (which also happened to be the last physical event, except the PFT -- they used my initial)and spent the next 8 weeks on crutches. I still graduated though (I was #2 in the company which probably had a lot to do with it.). We had some real bags of trash complete the program though. A couple of those actually became awesome Marines that I was lucky enough to run into again (in my Company at TBS) and are in the Middle East now. That's something I still can't believe! I graduated TBS in June last year (Alpha) and probably half my platoon (the ones that didn't have aviation contracts anyway)is deployed right now. Wow!
Anyway, back on topic, for me the biggest shock going back was how fast you start off. You don't start over from the beginning when you go in for Sr.'s, you start right where you left off from Jr.'s. It's a real eye opener. Also, I was expecting a little less prodding from the Sgt. Instructors at Sr.'s too. I thought they took a little more passive role and really let you exercise that leadership they're supposedly grading you on, but no they rode us hard the ENTIRE six weeks. Going back to Sr's (after finishing Jr's) is harder than anything you do in either six week program. Just the action of going back. It's tough and I assure you, you'll question your motivation, but it's been damned rewarding so far and I'm still in the infant stages of training status. I've had a lot of fun, met some awesome people (peers and staff), the amount of support you have going through all phases of training (here in Whiting is amazing; from the young men and women working in the control towers to the older men and women working on our airplanes in the hangars)is astounding! I feel blessed to be apart of this, and am excited for you to be able to experience it too.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic again (studying so much really gets you emotional!)and need to take a break from the computer!
Good luck!
Damn that's a lot of injuries JBoomer. I don't know how you made it out. I think you're lucky. How'd you split your head?
Did you fall off one of the obsticles.
I did one of those obsticles at Pendleton during a candidate prep day, and I almost fell off one. They seem to be designed for taller people than I am. About the final run, how did you manage to finish it with a broken foot? Dang that's some very harsh sh*t candidates have to endure, and you thought all that was pretty easy eh? It looks like a nice glimps of hell to me. I Can't wait!
I ran into a candidate that broke his leg in SULE 2. He's gonna start all over again. Hmm...they didn't give him any slack. I guess he wasn't that good to begin with or he didn't finish the coarse. Whatever it is, he looked like he was hating life
That motivates me. Now I know to harden myself as much as I can now before I go.
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Semper Fi
I did one of those obsticles at Pendleton during a candidate prep day, and I almost fell off one. They seem to be designed for taller people than I am. About the final run, how did you manage to finish it with a broken foot? Dang that's some very harsh sh*t candidates have to endure, and you thought all that was pretty easy eh? It looks like a nice glimps of hell to me. I Can't wait!
I ran into a candidate that broke his leg in SULE 2. He's gonna start all over again. Hmm...they didn't give him any slack. I guess he wasn't that good to begin with or he didn't finish the coarse. Whatever it is, he looked like he was hating life
That motivates me. Now I know to harden myself as much as I can now before I go.
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Semper Fi
Taxman2A
War were declared.
Jboomer- yeah that number I gave you was attrition for the 10 week program. We lost quite a few. I remember they kicked out 14 from our company the week before graduation even.
My squad individually finished with 8 candidates graduating I remember. I remember i don't know the exact figures anymore, but after graduation I did the math and attrition for my platoon alone was 39%
My squad individually finished with 8 candidates graduating I remember. I remember i don't know the exact figures anymore, but after graduation I did the math and attrition for my platoon alone was 39%
By looking at the numbers it looks like the 10 weeks straight is harder on the body. I assume people can recover after juniors and come all bright eyed and bushy tailed for seniors, but they do 2 more overall to compensate for the break. It all evens out I guess.
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Semper Fi
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Semper Fi
I hurt my foot the first night on the hump. We were going up this single track trail into the "Quantico highlands" in pitch black (like 2 o'clock in the morning) and I stepped on a rock or something. It was so dark that if you let go of the pack in front of you, you were lost. Period. You LITERALLY couldn't see the person in front of you. They wouldn't let us use our "moonbeams" because it "wasn't tactical." Like two hundred candidates stumbling around in the dark with 50 pounds of gear on our backs in the woods was tactical to begin with. But, as the days went on, my foot hurt worse and worse. I finished the washboard trail (last training exercise at the end of SULE II) because my Platoon Commander was leading the run (our group). He kept telling me the finish line was "just over the next hill." Well, there's probably 20 hills, and I broke it just after the second or third. There are puddles at the bottom of each hill (between 6 and 18 inches deep. I stepped in one and heard and felt the "crack." The Marine next to me claimed he heard it too. Anyway, I finished the run, and lo and behold, the NATO obstacle course was next. Well, the PC told me if I completed it, I would "complete" SULE II. So, I did. Then, there was the mile run to the "Follow Me" statue. I was hurting really bad, but I knew I didn't want to have to come back. I figured the more I completed, the better chance I had of staying. It worked out in the end.
The OCC program would suck. I was glad when my six week mark rolled around (Jr's and Sr's). It felt like I had been there forever, four more weeks would have been horid. Plus, I didn't have a good PT program going before I went. Needless to say I was pretty broken down when graduation came.
I split my head on the group run of the E-Course. A candidate fell in front of me and I jumped over him. When my foot came down it was into a rain rut. I fell forward and had my rifle slung cross body across my back. It slid forward and the front sight post split the back of my head open. My Sgt Instructor was flipping out! They were still running, I just jumped up and caught up to the group. I could feel the blood pouring out of the back of my head (you know how those head wounds bleed --- gushers). I ran up to the Sgt Instructor and said "Staff Sgt. I fell and think I hurt myself." He took one look at it, turned pale as a sheet, and started saying "Oh my God, Oh my God, are you OK?" I told him I was OK and wanted to continue so he told me if I felt faint or anything, to stop at one of the aide stations. Well, just up the hill was the big net you have to climb over and there were Corpsmen there. I went first so I could have the Corpsmen clean it up while the rest of the group climbed over it. He must have thought I was done with the run, so he took his time. When the rest of the group finished, we all took off running -- I was dragging the Corpsman along behind me while I ran with the group. He was trying to wrap a bandage around my head and I was trying not to get left behind -- it was pretty funny. I think I motivated everyone!
A buddy of mine had worse injuries than I did. He fell off an LRC obstacle and landed on his head, knocking himself unconscious on the concrete, then fell into the pool just below the obstacle. After spending like 3 days in the rack for that, he got Cellulitis. That was enough to send him home. He came back to Sr's the next year and was in my API class in November/December, now he's in my squadron.
I'll tell you, knowing that you'll have to come back and start over from day one if you get sent home is PLENTY of motivation to "suck it up" and finish. Just about everyone leaves OCS after graduation with some kind of injury. They tell you to let them know if you have an injury because it's easier to treat most in the early stages. But, if your injury is bad enough, you're going home. Most people don't want to take that chance. A Marine I know had stress fractures when he graduated from OCS. I ran into him at TBS and he was in Mike Company healing from them (several months later). You just have to make the decision as to what is most important to you. I wanted nothing more than to be a pilot in the Marine Corps. I knew that I didn't have much of a future in the civilian world, so I told myself I would die from exhaustion before I would give up. That attitude has helped me many times (like the long underwater swims at TBS and API, I told myself I would drown before I came up for air. I figure those instructors are well trained in resuscitation so I had a pretty good chance of coming out of it OK. If not, I wouldn't know anyway. But, it never quite came to that, thankfully!).
Oh yeah, back to the foot thing. I think it broke because of the boots I was wearing. I took my All-leathers and jungles with me to Sr's. Well, I had my wife mail me my Hi-techs. They are awesome for running because they feel more like tennis shoes (well, great for running on even terrain). But, the problem with those boots are the sole's are too soft and pliable. Those are what I wore for the SULE event. Humping around with all of that weight on rocks the size of golfballs and baseballs was just too much. My foot would nearly wrap around the dang rocks when I would step on them. I think TBS banned the Lt's from using them for that reason.
The OCC program would suck. I was glad when my six week mark rolled around (Jr's and Sr's). It felt like I had been there forever, four more weeks would have been horid. Plus, I didn't have a good PT program going before I went. Needless to say I was pretty broken down when graduation came.
I split my head on the group run of the E-Course. A candidate fell in front of me and I jumped over him. When my foot came down it was into a rain rut. I fell forward and had my rifle slung cross body across my back. It slid forward and the front sight post split the back of my head open. My Sgt Instructor was flipping out! They were still running, I just jumped up and caught up to the group. I could feel the blood pouring out of the back of my head (you know how those head wounds bleed --- gushers). I ran up to the Sgt Instructor and said "Staff Sgt. I fell and think I hurt myself." He took one look at it, turned pale as a sheet, and started saying "Oh my God, Oh my God, are you OK?" I told him I was OK and wanted to continue so he told me if I felt faint or anything, to stop at one of the aide stations. Well, just up the hill was the big net you have to climb over and there were Corpsmen there. I went first so I could have the Corpsmen clean it up while the rest of the group climbed over it. He must have thought I was done with the run, so he took his time. When the rest of the group finished, we all took off running -- I was dragging the Corpsman along behind me while I ran with the group. He was trying to wrap a bandage around my head and I was trying not to get left behind -- it was pretty funny. I think I motivated everyone!
A buddy of mine had worse injuries than I did. He fell off an LRC obstacle and landed on his head, knocking himself unconscious on the concrete, then fell into the pool just below the obstacle. After spending like 3 days in the rack for that, he got Cellulitis. That was enough to send him home. He came back to Sr's the next year and was in my API class in November/December, now he's in my squadron.
I'll tell you, knowing that you'll have to come back and start over from day one if you get sent home is PLENTY of motivation to "suck it up" and finish. Just about everyone leaves OCS after graduation with some kind of injury. They tell you to let them know if you have an injury because it's easier to treat most in the early stages. But, if your injury is bad enough, you're going home. Most people don't want to take that chance. A Marine I know had stress fractures when he graduated from OCS. I ran into him at TBS and he was in Mike Company healing from them (several months later). You just have to make the decision as to what is most important to you. I wanted nothing more than to be a pilot in the Marine Corps. I knew that I didn't have much of a future in the civilian world, so I told myself I would die from exhaustion before I would give up. That attitude has helped me many times (like the long underwater swims at TBS and API, I told myself I would drown before I came up for air. I figure those instructors are well trained in resuscitation so I had a pretty good chance of coming out of it OK. If not, I wouldn't know anyway. But, it never quite came to that, thankfully!).
Oh yeah, back to the foot thing. I think it broke because of the boots I was wearing. I took my All-leathers and jungles with me to Sr's. Well, I had my wife mail me my Hi-techs. They are awesome for running because they feel more like tennis shoes (well, great for running on even terrain). But, the problem with those boots are the sole's are too soft and pliable. Those are what I wore for the SULE event. Humping around with all of that weight on rocks the size of golfballs and baseballs was just too much. My foot would nearly wrap around the dang rocks when I would step on them. I think TBS banned the Lt's from using them for that reason.
splendid_splinter
HMLA flyer
my platoon had an attrition rate of more than 40% as well. and from all the people i've talked to, that number is pretty solid with occ. most of those drops were in weeks 6-8.. with two academic drops at the end of week 9! plc might have less of an attrition rate because the bodies really started breaking around week 6. there's really a huge difference in the injuries between 9 1/2 weeks of running and marching and the measily program with two 5 1/2 weeks with a year in between to go back to school and party and get all re-nastied.
anyways.. to those that are stressing, i'm not gonna tell you you have nothing to worry about. just be in good shape, do a good bit of reading about the marines before you go, and when you get there, work on having good relationships with your peers.. cause honestly, they will make or break some people.. oh yea, and watch the ground while humping and running ALWAYS! don't take your eyes off it!! cause one little root will send you home quicker than shiit.
anyways.. to those that are stressing, i'm not gonna tell you you have nothing to worry about. just be in good shape, do a good bit of reading about the marines before you go, and when you get there, work on having good relationships with your peers.. cause honestly, they will make or break some people.. oh yea, and watch the ground while humping and running ALWAYS! don't take your eyes off it!! cause one little root will send you home quicker than shiit.
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