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Switching to Texan II's?

TheBubba

I Can Has Leadership!
None
It sems to me the biggest advantag in using the T-6 (A or B, when it comes online)is that you get a newer airframe that potentialy costs less to maintain.. both in dollars an man hours.

As far as the Texan II is concrned, its already a proven airframe. The USAF and TW-6 have already shown that it can get the job done. Do you realy need a B variant just now? Maybe, maybe not.

As far as the students are concened, it shouldn't affect the quality of aviators the primary VTs are producing at any level.
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
It sems to me the biggest advantag in using the T-6 (A or B, when it comes online)is that you get a newer airframe that potentialy costs less to maintain.. both in dollars an man hours.

As far as the Texan II is concrned, its already a proven airframe. The USAF and TW-6 have already shown that it can get the job done. Do you realy need a B variant just now? Maybe, maybe not.

As far as the students are concened, it shouldn't affect the quality of aviators the primary VTs are producing at any level.

Good points.
 

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Its not like the T-6 doesn't have analog guages. Yeah, its got a bunch of cool display panels, but unless they make the T-6B a true glass cockpit, all you get is a digital display of an analog guage.

I have yet to fly with a true glass cockpit. The T-6, T-39, T-2 and Prowler all use analog guages. I don't see how its wrong to train using them at all. Maybe I'm missing something though.

The T-6B will have a true glass cockpit. It will have three multi-function displays in addition to a HUD in each cockpit. The standby instruments are even all contained on a LCD.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/t6b/
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
The T-6B will have a true glass cockpit. It will have three multi-function displays in addition to a HUD in each cockpit. The standby instruments are even all contained on a LCD.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/t6b/

Lot of cool gear on the bird. But how the hell are we going to use our OLFs w/o BETA?!

Bunk or Gatordev--has the TW-5 team considered lengthening any of the OLFs? I know it doesnt solve split-field ops, but it might allow us to use our existing fileds.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
You don't think TW-5 hasn't been working to get these? You don't think there's already an office set up w/ current IPs who have time in the T-6 working on a curriculum? That there haven't been endless meetings on how to make the operational side of things make sense?

The problem is not TW-5. They need an airplane in order to be able to train, and the T-6B isn't functional, which is kind of an important element in the training. "But they could use the T-6A..." you say. Great, and as Bubba said, that's no different than the T-34 and negates your argument.

Gator - your points are valid. No doubt The Wing has and is doing boat loads of analysis. Some one though at some point has to make the call - and adapt the aircraft we are being given. Course rules at NDZ will have to fundamentally change - including split field ops. I bet if you asked some of the blue suits at VT-3 what they would do you would have it in a bulleted power point slide in 20 minutes.

The Navy won't win on mods to the airplane itself - at least I don't think so from reading the trade rags. And at some point the lack of T-6 adoption may threaten the J in JUPTS.

So my very uneducated guess is that things will change fundamentally at NDZ.

But you're there in the trenches - and I totally appreciate the position you're in. Beta would totally make sense from a pure Navy point of view.
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
Lot of cool gear on the bird. But how the hell are we going to use our OLFs w/o BETA?!

Bunk or Gatordev--has the TW-5 team considered lengthening any of the OLFs? I know it doesnt solve split-field ops, but it might allow us to use our existing fileds.

Not that I know of. I know Saufley is being looked at. It's my understanding that we will use the entire length of runway at N. Whiting. If the T-6A/B cost per flight hour is less than the T-34C, with more time on the airframe, thats going to be a big factor in getting them onboard. I've rarely had a T-34C go down for a maint issue. In the 300 hours I've flown since being here, I've only come back once when my gear didn't raise up. Thats pretty good in my book. Not sure how the T-6A is doing at Sherman in that regards.
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
Not that I know of. I know Saufley is being looked at. It's my understanding that we will use the entire length of runway at N. Whiting. If the T-6A/B cost per flight hour is less than the T-34C, with more time on the airframe, thats going to be a big factor in getting them onboard. I've rarely had a T-34C go down for a maint issue. In the 300 hours I've flown since being here, I've only come back once when my gear didn't raise up. Thats pretty good in my book. Not sure how the T-6A is doing at Sherman in that regards.

I know Saufley used to be open, but won't the airspace be a little tight down there? Any word on how the working areas will change?

Sidenote: in my primary time we never canceled a flight for maintainence.....except that one time...but it was my fault;)
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I know Saufley used to be open, but won't the airspace be a little tight down there? Any word on how the working areas will change?

Sidenote: in my primary time we never canceled a flight for maintainence.....except that one time...but it was my fault;)

Saufley was open when I was a student, and from an IP perspective, it kind of sucks to have to use because it takes so long to get in there. However, from an airspace perspective, it's not that big a deal and the course rules are already written for it to interact w/ NPA and PNS.

Lot of cool gear on the bird. But how the hell are we going to use our OLFs w/o BETA?!

Bunk or Gatordev--has the TW-5 team considered lengthening any of the OLFs? I know it doesnt solve split-field ops, but it might allow us to use our existing fileds.

The T-6 can land at all the fields except Silverhill (and Holley, but that's a non-starter). Back when I was a stud, they had already lengthened Brewton and Evergreen/Middleton (and NSE, I think, but I'm not sure) for the T-6. Talking w/ guys who were around several years ago, after I got winged, there was a time where NSE went full-length for a while and it apparently wasn't too big a deal. Take that for what it's worth.

Gator - your points are valid. No doubt The Wing has and is doing boat loads of analysis. Some one though at some point has to make the call - and adapt the aircraft we are being given. Course rules at NDZ will have to fundamentally change - including split field ops. I bet if you asked some of the blue suits at VT-3 what they would do you would have it in a bulleted power point slide in 20 minutes.

The Navy won't win on mods to the airplane itself - at least I don't think so from reading the trade rags. And at some point the lack of T-6 adoption may threaten the J in JUPTS.

So my very uneducated guess is that things will change fundamentally at NDZ.

You're missing the fundamental point. Most of the logistics are ready to go. The course rules don't need to change. T-6s might have to throttle back a bit on the rules while the -34s are around, but otherwise, it's not the end of the world. Smart folks have some good ideas to counter the traffic issues. These aren't just first tour guys, these are guys who've done multiple IP tours and some are current in both the T-6 and the T-34.

The problem is not TW-5 needing to accept the aircraft being given, the problem is that the aircraft is not available to be given. I'll put it simpler...the plane doesn't work as advertised. Until they make the thing actually function according to spec, it's "need" is academic.

Disclaimer: I've been out of the IP game for a couple months, so my info is about 2 months time-late. But I worked w/ a bunch of the guys who are in the T-6 stand-up office while in the FITU and this was the word I was getting. Will it happen? You bet, just standard contractor delays.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
The problem is not TW-5 needing to accept the aircraft being given, the problem is that the aircraft is not available to be given. I'll put it simpler...the plane doesn't work as advertised. Until they make the thing actually function according to spec, it's "need" is academic.

Purely out of curiousity, in what way(s)? I assume there is more here than just the BETA or No BETA issue
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
Latest I hear, and I can confirm with Kiko, there's an issue with cooling the T-6B's avionics package. I think Gator is right, while it used to be a TW5 thing, now it's a Raytheon issue. Navy's ready, Raytheon, not so much.
 

Herc_Dude

I believe nicotine + caffeine = protein
pilot
Contributor
Latest I hear, and I can confirm with Kiko, there's an issue with cooling the T-6B's avionics package. I think Gator is right, while it used to be a TW5 thing, now it's a Raytheon issue. Navy's ready, Raytheon, not so much.

Yeah, that is very important. We are constantly told the AC is NOT for us, its for the avionics, computers and all their components ... but we still get to enjoy it. :D That stuff gets surprisingly hot very fast.
 
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