SWO VS Aviation

[wink]

Glad you got lucky.

 

[Killer2]

He said, "Ok, here's how it is..." looked over both his shoulders, then proceeded with "stab, stab, look, stab, stab."

Everyone on my ship makes fun of me since my designator was changed to 1375, saying "Uh oh...the aviator's driving!" You know what? That's like a bus full of Special Olympics athletes calling you retarded.

Yet again another reason why NOT to read this forum in a public setting.

 

[bch]

Yet again another reason why NOT to read this forum in a public setting.

what are you talking about?

 

[Killer2]

bch when you read what RP wrote did you not laugh out loud. Well in my case I did and I was in the computer lab at school. People studying + me LOL = me looking dumb. Thats why I should not read these things in public.

 

[bch]

not really but ok

 

[ea6bflyr]

Friends don't let friends become SWO's. On a serious note, if you HAVE TO GO SWO, go Nuke SWO and get the big bucks! I wouldn't trade being an aviator for anything....Seriously. The type of ship you choose also makes a BIG difference. The BIG boat navy is different than the little boat Navy. Good luck with your future.
ea6bflyr

 

[Road Program]

Yeah, well the thing about going to a bigger boat is that you will eventually end up on a smaller boat. The SWO career pipeline likes you to be diverse, so they don't typically like you to stay in one platform your whole career. If you don't want a career out of it, then go out and try for one of the newer LHDs. Then after that, try for another one, or maybe an LHA. If you want excitement and adventure for your second tour, go be an OIC of a special boat team or an NGLO with the Marines.

Then again, if you really wanted excitement, you'd just go into aviation from the beginning and we wouldn't have to have this conversation.

And for God's sake...don't go Surface Nuke!!! Those guys are the most uptight guys you've ever met. I guess if you're the anal, uptight type then it's for you, but if you're not, the money's not worth it (it is a LOT of money, though).

 

[Flash]

For any of those going SWO or thinking about it, one good deal that I learned about a few years ago was the 7th Fleet command ship. It is the USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19). What is the good deal about a ship with an 3 star and his staff and with few weapons? Well, when they did a cruise around Australia a few years ago they spent 10 of 20 days in port. The Admiral wants to see the sites, everyone wins.

 

[Eagle32]

I heard the "Ridge" also makes yearly runs to Singapore so the boss can shop for his wife. Actually flew two tactical (well, alright tacair, P-3 missions are not that tactical) flights in support of the Blue Ridge, insert dull pencil here, OUCH!, repeat, OUCH!

 

[badger]

Tell me, where is the sense at starting a brief at 2200 for a 12 hour sea and anchor detail to begin at 0600? Can anyone tell me how that is safe? Yeah, we just did it.

I've done this too, and it's a problem created by the demands on ships schedules from the top - fewer ships, more requirements and fewer steaming days means more to do in a day. Don't blame the SWOs, write your congressmen.

Most of the time on the bridge is spent tooling around in a box at 5 knots or driving from point A to point B, calling your CO if another ship is going to get within three MILES of you. Pilots...do you call your squadron CO if another airplane is going to come within three miles of you? Seriously...I want to know.

No offense to my Airdale brethren, but a dose of perspective might help. Yes, an Aviator pilots a multimillion dollar aircraft, is responsible for the life of his crew and passengers, and whether or not the ordnance hits its intended target, but if that JG on the bridge of a CV screws up he has the opportunity to inflict a billion dollars of damage to a national asset, upset the employment schedules of quite a few other ships and thousands of Sailors, kill and injure literally hundreds of people, and create an environmental disaster that would make the EXXON VALDEZ look like child's play. If a CVN gets T-boned by a supertanker in the Gulf today, you can bet the SECDEF and President are going to briefed within hours on why that warship is going to fall off the line. Is there a little CYA in those 10kyd contact reports, yes, but if you look at the list of a score of Captains relieved in the last two years and the economic and national security impact of damaged ships, those reports are not an unreasonable requirement.

Besides all of that, if you don't get your pin, you'll be kicked out. And it's not like there's a standard for getting your pin. Sure, there's PQS, but we all know that doesn't mean jack. My SWO board was an hour long. On my current ship the SWO boards are no less than 2.5 hours. I don't think I could talk about ANYTHING for 2.5 hours without repeating myself 8 times.

Your vast experience in the Navy may lead you to think there are no standards, but my 18+ years of experience says you're mistaken. I've sat on a lot of qualification boards and I can say the length of the board is meaningless. Some Captains like to try and explore the limits of a candidates knowledge, and some Captains have their minds made up already based on what they've seen on the bridge and the deckplates. Any board member worth their salt, particularly on a SWO board, could make you talk about ASW alone for 2.5 hours. I think any HS, HSL or VS guy would concur.

 

[wink]

My VS Mission Commander board was over 3 hours. I can't believe that a SWO board would be less than 3 hours considering the complexity of a warship and the missions peformed.

 

[Goober]

By going NFO, I'm actually going to lose money because the NFO bonus smaller than the pilot bonus and the SWO bonuses I would have gotten. On top of that, it will take a while for my flight pay to catch up to my sea pay.

So yeah, I would stay SWO, but I got lucky.

"Walk in to the light Carol Ann!..." Consider any escape from the SWO community to be a blessing. In my career I've never seen so much self-inflicted work and pain for the sole sake of making an existence seem more worthy. Yeah, your bonus might be a bit smaller, but I could beat the crap out of you every day and pay you the difference if you like. I'm sure that guys who work at a sewage treatment plant and belong to a union probably make pretty good money too, but you don't see people standing in line for applications.

Don't sweat the sea pay difference. Your sea time still counts, and you'll get the appropriate amount of sea pay when you're out on the boat (just not while you're back on the beach). Your flight pay will catch up in due time and be much more than your sea pay plus you'll always draw it from then on regardless of where you're stationed, flying or not. (There are a few restrictions, but few people ever fall into that category).

Revel in the joy that your workload is a fraction of the SWO side, you get to get off the ship for hours at a time to do fun stuff, and your squadron DH's & CO/XO are likely to be people that you would bother to piss on if they were on fire rather than going to get marshmallows.

 

[airpirate25]

I started out NFO, ended up GENAV (yeah, one step above the crud in the shower). I agree that SWO life is hard, spent four as DIVO on an LPD. However, it was no kidding a blast to have actual decision making power, and real input in fighting the ship. There's no greater thrill than flying ( traded jets for 150's but still fun), but there's no greater pride than having the honor of responsibility...the grass is as green as you make it.

 

[Road Program]

Goober...have no worries, I am very happy to be a SNFO. The money is not an issue...you just can't buy this kind of happiness. I mean, c'mon...I'm an O-3 in Pensacola where the cost of living is only slightly higher than the cost of living in most third world countries.

You are SO right on the self-inflicted work and pain remark.

 

[Goober]

And you know, the thing is I've known some AWESOME guys who were SWOs, and most of the humor we fling at them is completely good-natured with no harm intended. We just have a limited amount of time in the air (time=gas=money...or something like that), so we tend to get to the point very quickly. Do what you need to do, be finished, and move on while at the same time discarding anything else that just doesn't matter. Squadron skippers know we work hard (sometimes) and especially when we know we really have to, so there's no effort involved in trying to make the other guy look bad by visibly working 10x as hard on menial tasks that often take care of themselves. I knew a guy in my last battle group - SUPER guy, one of the nicest (and competent) people I've ever met. Third back-to-back sea tour. Why? Why would you intentionally do that? That's an invitation to burnout if I've ever seen one.

Nothing wrong w/ working hard, but eventually something's got to give, you know?