T-45C Replacement

[Swanee]

To CNATRA’s credit, over the last few years he shot down proposed Syllabi that were simply a reduction of flights. Yes syllabi tend to get shorter over the years as we reevaluate what is needed and what isn’t, but the decision makers seem to be aware that reducing flight hours outright with no training to replace it isn’t the answer.

It's that "attitudes" portion of the training system that you can't shortcut. Knowledge and Skills can come quicker as equipment becomes simpler and easier to operate. Attitudes require many hours and events of individual instruction. A student has to experience how their instructors approach planning, briefing, flying, interacting with other pilots, making decisions, acting around the squadron, etc... This takes many touch points over a year or two to really get it right.

 

[taxi1]

It's that "attitudes" portion of the training system that you can't shortcut. Knowledge and Skills can come quicker as equipment becomes simpler and easier to operate. Attitudes require many hours and events of individual instruction. A student has to experience how their instructors approach planning, briefing, flying, interacting with other pilots, making decisions, acting around the squadron, etc... This takes many touch points over a year or two to really get it right.

There is also huge benefit to solos and being the pilot in command. One thing we could give the students cheaply in the light civil aircraft is time in command. Get them to solo plus some hours, give them a gas card, and tell them to visit Key West, Brunswick, Whidbey Island, and Miramar, VFR the whole way. Don’t die.

 

[Swanee]

There is also huge benefit to solos and being the pilot in command. One thing we could give the students cheaply in the light civil aircraft is time in command. Get them to solo plus some hours, give them a gas card, and tell them to visit Key West, Brunswick, Whidbey Island, and Miramar, VFR the whole way. Don’t die.

Absolutely. The solo cross country in Advanced has a huge amount of value. So did the solo log flights out to El Centro, or to Jacksonville or Key West for CQ dets.

 

[Mouselovr]

Did the Project Avenger stuff flop?

I was Charlie trained in corpus. So I watched a lot of people go through avenger.
Students hated it
IPs hated it
The new delta syllabus incorporated the only positive element derived from avenger, ungraded VR course rule sims. The rest was thrown in the "badly executed ideas bin".
It was a disorganized and chaotic syllabus that dumped unnecessary stress on students, see "mission phase". I have previously talked about how avenger further distanced prior flight timers and non prior flight students. Also, if you were airsick, you were screwed bc there was no ungraded flights where they could pull into the AS program without already negatively impacting your grades.
In additional to many, many other issues.

 

[Gatordev]

Also, if you were airsick, you were screwed bc there was no ungraded flights where they could pull into the AS program without already negatively impacting your grades.

Really? Wow. I'm amazed they couldn't just make xx86 (or maybe it's xx87) rides to help with that. Talk about lack of foresight on the syllabus creators' part.

 

[FLGUY]

. Also, if you were airsick, you were screwed bc there was no ungraded flights where they could pull into the AS program without already negatively impacting your grades.
In additional to many, many other issues.

This is bad gouge. Ungraded Adaptation flights were regularly issued for airsick students who needed them. The code was XXX(84)(ADPT)

 

[Showbiz]

Somewhat related, word on the street is that Project Hellcat is going to get increased funding and that the actual Hellcat flights in the T-6 will begin again soon. As a recent Hellcat grad, I felt that the introduction to some of the concepts we will be learning in Advanced was super helpful. Currently Hellcat is a FCLP sim, 2X Advanced forms sim, and 3X TACFORM sims (on heading, off heading, and intro to gunsight tracking) with lectures associated for each. The Advanced forms sim were in Mixed Reality (UDT with VR goggles so you still get a more accurate feel on the controls but have 360 degree lookout), which was the only time we were exposed to MR in training so far. Would love to see the MR stuff expanded to Primary as a replacement to the single screen UDT's, granted there were definitely some bugs and it took the maintenance crew 10-15 mins to get it set up each time beforehand so i'm not sure how feasible that would be.

 

[ChillBeast69]

Somewhat related, word on the street is that Project Hellcat is going to get increased funding and that the actual Hellcat flights in the T-6 will begin again soon. As a recent Hellcat grad, I felt that the introduction to some of the concepts we will be learning in Advanced was super helpful. Currently Hellcat is a FCLP sim, 2X Advanced forms sim, and 3X TACFORM sims (on heading, off heading, and intro to gunsight tracking) with lectures associated for each. The Advanced forms sim were in Mixed Reality (UDT with VR goggles so you still get a more accurate feel on the controls but have 360 degree lookout), which was the only time we were exposed to MR in training so far. Would love to see the MR stuff expanded to Primary as a replacement to the single screen UDT's, granted there were definitely some bugs and it took the maintenance crew 10-15 mins to get it set up each time beforehand so i'm not sure how feasible that would be.

How do people get selected for these programs is it an opt in or random?

 

[Showbiz]

How do people get selected for these programs is it an opt in or random?

Currently all Jet selects go straight to Hellcat. I believe the only exception is prior VFA/VAQ NFO's coming back for their pilot wings who selected back into Jets.

 

[ChillBeast69]

Currently all Jet selects go straight to Hellcat. I believe the only exception is prior VFA/VAQ NFO's coming back for their pilot wings who selected back into Jets.

Gotcha thanks.

 

[HuggyU2]

Until recently, both branches have been doing pilot training pretty much the same way for 60 years. I have to wonder if the USAF and the USN have pilots cross-talking on what they are doing... actually integrated in each others' pilot training development process..., using ideas (both good and failed) from the other branch, and finding synergies to learn lessons together.

But the more I think about it...
... nah, no way that's happening.

 

[HSMPBR]

Until recently, both branches have been doing pilot training pretty much the same way for 60 years. I have to wonder if the USAF and the USN have pilots cross-talking on what they are doing... actually integrated in each others' pilot training development process..., using ideas (both good and failed) from the other branch, and finding synergies to learn lessons together.

But the more I think about it...
... nah, no way that's happening.

Yeah, pack warm and enjoy Colorado. We’ll be independently ruining our own training while hanging out with the “girl” at the bar in Singapore.

 

[Mouselovr]

This is bad gouge. Ungraded Adaptation flights were regularly issued for airsick students who needed them. The code was XXX(84)(ADPT)

Sorry about that, my verbiage was unclear.
Yes, they issued ungraded adaptation flights in avenger.

In the charlie syllabus, your first 4 flights were ungraded. With no consequence, if you were airsick, you were placed in the program.

In avenger, there was no ungraded FAM block. Students were pushed to complete 2-3 flights until they were eventually marked as incomplete due to airsickness and then moved into the program. This was a fatal flaw as your grades were directly proportional to soloing with the fewest flights and the highest grades.

One of my closest friends was airsick attrited out of avenger. They felt like the syllabus structure was an unnecessary strain compared to charlie airsick students.

 

[FLGUY]

Sorry about that, my verbiage was unclear.
Yes, they issued ungraded adaptation flights in avenger.

In the charlie syllabus, your first 4 flights were ungraded. With no consequence, if you were airsick, you were placed in the program.

In avenger, there was no ungraded FAM block. Students were pushed to complete 2-3 flights until they were eventually marked as incomplete due to airsickness and then moved into the program. This was a fatal flaw as your grades were directly proportional to soloing with the fewest flights and the highest grades.

One of my closest friends was airsick attrited out of avenger. They felt like the syllabus structure was an unnecessary strain compared to charlie airsick students.

You’re conflating two separate things. One being that the Avenger syllabus counted the first four FAM flights in one’s NSS whereas Charlie did not. That is a moot point though as each squadron’s NSS is compared only to students in that squadron, in that syllabus. Apples to apples.

The second being how the airsickness program is executed. There’s no difference in how the two syllabi handle airsickness, as that is governed by higher level instructions and guidance. Regardless of which syllabus a student is in, they are given the same treatment regarding visits to the AMSO, medication, adaptation flights, and how they are monitored by STUCON.