T-6?

[TurnandBurn55]

I'm a new FO that just checked into the wing and we all got a 6.

This is obviously a new development... especially given all the -34s that are still out on the flight line.

Nittany-

The TAD is a nice thing, but the thing is it takes 3 or 4 seconds to kick in. It makes things easier sometimes, but if you're bringing the power on fast (like in aerobatics or such), you really have to use the rudder trim.

Honestly, the instructors who say the T-6 is overpowered for a stud are full of it, IMO. I wonder how many of said instructors are actually qualed on the Texan? Because while I heard some gripes from instructors in VT-10, it was mostly limited to the fact it didn't have a TACAN or that the lack of beta/anti-lock brakes combined with skinnier, overpressurized tires (120 psi nose, 225 rear) makes it susceptible to blowing it on a full-stop landing.

I've NEVER heard an instructor complain that he felt it was a poor student trainer due to power-- and these are guys who were qualed in both planes. Our Contact checkride we have aerobatics as a 'demo' item, but almost every IP in the wing is comfortable letting us fly them to our heart's content. And we're just stupid 'FOs with 6 flights at the controls.

I'd imagine the fact that all the 'dynamic' maneuvers are done at high altitude helps mitigate the concerns about overpower. Ex: NATOPS lists spins as a prohibited maneuver below 10K.

 

[Squid]

no recovery below 10k or have to be established below 10k? we have to start at at least 9k in the -34. they have to be recovered, or on the way to recovery by 5k.

 

[rdraider04]

You fly T-6 if you are NFO's in Pensacola for Primary.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

I don't have a copy of NATOPS with me... but as I recall...

Intentional spins below 10K (and above 22K) are a prohibited maneuver.

Uncontrolled flight below 6K mandates ejection. I BELIEVE this is consistent for all ejection-seat aircraft (could be a 3710 requirement).

But we always did our spins up in the Gator MOA between 17.5 and 10.5.

 

[Sajin]

No spins below 10K press alt and recommended starting at 13.5 because spining must cease prior to 10K. Also you cannot intentionally spin past two turns. At least that's the rule here.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

It's not 'a rule here'. It's a NATOPS/Dash-1 requirement.

Also, you should look again at the prohibited maneuvers. You can spin as many times as you want, as long as you've recovered by 10K. What NATOPS prohibits is ***aggravated*** spins past two turns. An aggravated spin is considerably faster round and round than a steady-state erect spin, and thus much more dangerous. Can happen if you're in a spin and decide to shove the stick forward while maintaining full rudder in the direction you're spinning. Or if you don't apply full backstick upon entry. Which is why you might notice your instructor shoving it back into your lap if you're not aggressive enough

 

[Squid]

nope, no 130kias spirals here, no siree. never seen one, never done one, nuh uh. i always put the stick in my lap mmmhmm.

 

[nittany03]

nope, no 130kias spirals here, no siree. never seen one, never done one, nuh uh. i always put the stick in my lap mmmhmm.

My on-wing actually thanked me after FAM-5 for being the first student to put him into a high-speed spiral. He'd never seen it before outside the FITU. I thought, "great, sir, nice to know I gooned it up that bad . . ." :icon_tong

 

[Sajin]

Must be two differen't languages. The AF mandated recovery inputs after one turn and no more than two turns here (Moody, I'd check the FCIF but I'm too lazy). Guess there's been an oil problem. No more OCF recoveries either, for the same reason. Took a lot of the fun out of it. Course that's the Air Force. But yes two turn aggravated are prohibited, then again you shouldn't be trying to enter aggravated spins in the first place (again the rule here at AF land).

AF form is pretty cool though.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

Hrmm... my bad, thought you were a CTW-6 guy.

The Navy FTI calls for recovery by 12.5K, but that's more of a 'recommendation' than a mandatory thing. Like you said, 10K it has to be done... but I've gone spinning from 17K all the way down to the bottom part of the MOA while my instructor lectures me on the finer points of spin recovery LOL! "Ok, dude, let's go up and do it again... no, don't put that rudder in yet, I'm on my soapbox!"

The oil problem is true-- again, the Navy FTI calls for you to verbalize oil pressure upon recovery. In VT-10 they actually had a chip light that led to an engine seizure... fortunately, it didn't actually fail until they were on low key. Another concern with the Texan. I hear chip light is now a boldface, no? Haven't been in that sucker since July or so...

 

[petescheu]

Must be two differen't languages. The AF mandated recovery inputs after one turn and no more than two turns here (Moody, I'd check the FCIF but I'm too lazy). Guess there's been an oil problem. No more OCF recoveries either, for the same reason. Took a lot of the fun out of it. Course that's the Air Force. But yes two turn aggravated are prohibited, then again you shouldn't be trying to enter aggravated spins in the first place (again the rule here at AF land).

AF form is pretty cool though.

Yeah, they've had problems with chip lights with the zero G/negative G on the oil system. Some mishaps that aren't going to be thrown out on a public forum, but something to keep in mind, ie don't go spinning it like a banchi if you don't have to...

 

[Squid]

just wait, a few more years like the -34 has and EVERYTHING will be boldface. it just hasn't happened to the -6, yet.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

just wait, a few more years like the -34 has and EVERYTHING will be boldface. it just hasn't happened to the -6, yet.

LOL! I believe it... T-6 NATOPS is on like Change 9, T-34 is on Change 1,857

Check out the T-1. 6 boldface and I think 3 are the same. Longest is 6 lines ; )

Ahh, those Chair Force guys and their new jets...

 

[Squid]

what was that... condition lever feather, PCL full forward? ****.. turn, climb, clean, bailout?

 

[Sajin]

Hrmm... my bad, thought you were a CTW-6 guy.

The Navy FTI calls for recovery by 12.5K, but that's more of a 'recommendation' than a mandatory thing. Like you said, 10K it has to be done... but I've gone spinning from 17K all the way down to the bottom part of the MOA while my instructor lectures me on the finer points of spin recovery LOL! "Ok, dude, let's go up and do it again... no, don't put that rudder in yet, I'm on my soapbox!"

The oil problem is true-- again, the Navy FTI calls for you to verbalize oil pressure upon recovery. In VT-10 they actually had a chip light that led to an engine seizure... fortunately, it didn't actually fail until they were on low key. Another concern with the Texan. I hear chip light is now a boldface, no? Haven't been in that sucker since July or so...

It's cool. Just a mis communication. Trust me I'd rather be in Navy training right now.
We've had a few EPs here, but nothing drastic since I've been around. We had a TAD fail today but no biggie. Oh and an OBOGS Fail light on my area solo which gets your attention real quick.
Yeah AF spin training sucks. "Ok 80 KIAS, full rudder/stick, ground, sky recover." Plus we use OCF recoveries rather than proper anti-spin. Go figure. Can't wait to get out of this backwards land.