Thanks alot fellas....

[DaGreenLantern]

I just took the S/A test in the ARCO book and I got a 27 out of 35 (77%). I finished in time and a there were a few that I just got backwards towards the end that were really obvious. Is that good enough for a decent score on the real deal?

FYI...The ARCO book has alot of typos.....

Lemme know...

peace out..

Da Lantern

 

[ben]

The real test is much more difficult in regards to the spatial apperception test. I missed a bunch of them and could do the ARCO stuff in my sleep. However, I think a lot of it was due to nervousness. Just practice so you can do the Arco and get 100%, then you have done about all you can do. Good luck.

 

[CLAM97to99]

Man I though it was common sense that the weight would travel up with the monkey. But that could have been because I am not that smart so I didn't think too much about it.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Man I though it was common sense that the weight would travel up with the monkey. But that could have been because I am not that smart so I didn't think too much about it.

That's what I thought, too, for the logic that crysmc illustrated. But, hey, I am just physics major with a low GPA. I scored 7/9/7 with an OAR of 51, I must have gotten a few right.

Good luck! As long as you study the gouge and can do the ARCO problems your in good shape.

 

[crysmc]

I just took the S/A test in the ARCO book and I got a 27 out of 35 (77%). I finished in time and a there were a few that I just got backwards towards the end that were really obvious. Is that good enough for a decent score on the real deal?

FYI...The ARCO book has alot of typos.....

Lemme know...

peace out..

Da Lantern

I ended up scoring perfectly on the S/A part. I'm not trying to blow my own horn or anything here... I'm just trying to demonstrate that I studied hard (for the two day notice I was given) and I did well. Study the ones you got wrong and figure out where your logic was flawed. Then keep practicing and you will do fine. It's been a few months since I took it, but I got 8's and one 9 and my OAR was a 65. And as always... Good luck!

~Crystal

 

[CLAM97to99]

They never told me how I did on the S/A part of the test (or any part for that matter). But I must have done pretty good I passed the test. The arco book is a good study guide for it i just went over it until I could do it easy in 10 min. I photo copied the pages and cut out the questions and mixed them up to help make sure I was learning how to do it and not just what the answers were. The S/A part was harder on the ASTB though. You can eliminate a lot of them like zuggerat said. There are usually two that are similar you that you really can choose from and some times it can be tricky epically when the only difference appeared to be the degree of bank on the airplane. But it has been a while since I took the test so I might be wrong about the only difference being degree of bank.

 

[Ironfeliks23]

Ma'am I didnt mean to post as a correction. I believe the question is poorly worded. Here is the issue, the monkey does not change the tension of the rope if he is moving at a constant speed. Therefore if he is smooth, constant and uses all 4 hands, he could theoretically get to the top without changing the tension on the rope for more then an instant (initial acceleration). The friction of the pully and the air resistance of the system throws a larger kink into it, however, tension as a force cannot be effected by a constant velocity movement.

These are the facts, everything else is a matter of interpretation:

The monkey's position on the rope is completely irrelivant to the equilibrium to the system, only that the moment arm on the pulley is the same for the weight and the monkey.

As he accelerates, he tensions the rope. Though the mere fact of him moving (if at a constant velocity) does not effect the tension of the rope. Gravity pulls on him the same everywhere on the rope, so the force felt by the rope does not change.

I dont know what the Navy says the answer is, and that is the only thing that can truely settle this. I see your reasoning, and find it sound and understandable, however I disagree with the specifics. The assumptions required to analyze this to the degree that we are, are more numerous then the problem warrents. The monkey position is irrelivant, I think that is the point of the question, not that he could tension the rope when he climbs.

I put c and didnt do too bad. If someone is going to see their recruiter soon, see if you can get it from him. The ROTC unit here doesnt have the answer key.

P.S. does anyone have a monkey so we can try this?

 

[crysmc]

Ma'am I didnt mean to post as a correction. I believe the question is poorly worded. Here is the issue, the monkey does not change the tension of the rope if he is moving at a constant speed. Therefore if he is smooth, constant and uses all 4 hands, he could theoretically get to the top without changing the tension on the rope for more then an instant (initial acceleration). The friction of the pully and the air resistance of the system throws a larger kink into it, however, tension as a force cannot be effected by a constant velocity movement.

These are the facts, everything else is a matter of interpretation:

The monkey's position on the rope is completely irrelivant to the equilibrium to the system, only that the moment arm on the pulley is the same for the weight and the monkey.

As he accelerates, he tensions the rope. Though the mere fact of him moving (if at a constant velocity) does not effect the tension of the rope. Gravity pulls on him the same everywhere on the rope, so the force felt by the rope does not change.

I dont know what the Navy says the answer is, and that is the only thing that can truely settle this. I see your reasoning, and find it sound and understandable, however I disagree with the specifics. The assumptions required to analyze this to the degree that we are, are more numerous then the problem warrents. The monkey position is irrelivant, I think that is the point of the question, not that he could tension the rope when he climbs.

I put c and didnt do too bad. If someone is going to see their recruiter soon, see if you can get it from him. The ROTC unit here doesnt have the answer key.

P.S. does anyone have a monkey so we can try this?

Why is this debate still going on? I had my physics professor double check my work. He has been teaching physics for 45 years. So if you think that perhaps your wisdom is beyond his, then keep on analyzing. HOWEVER... the navy did NOT invent the problem. It is directly derived from the work of Lewis Carroll. And despite whatever you think, the point of the problem is that the monkey's position IS RELEVANT to the equilibrium. If you don't understand why... re-read my posts. You start bringing up the friction of the pulley & resistance and all of that nonsense, but if you read the actual question... it specifically states:

"Assume that the mass of the
rope and pulley are negligible, and the pulley is frictionless."

so you are looking at the problem a little too deeply.

Also, my OSO looked up the answer to the problem and verified that I am correct. So if you still want to rent a monkey and attempt to defy physics, my boyfriend and I will surely catch a flight to USC to watch.

 

[DaGreenLantern]

Sorry Ma'am....even if he did rent a monkey and try to defy physics, I don't think I will make the flight.....besides...I'm from L.A. myself and I like Miami way too much.... :icon_rast.....LOL...

Anywayz...back to studying...Im going to have some more questions later tonight when I'm done...

peace out...

Da Lantern

 

[crysmc]

Sorry Ma'am....even if he did rent a monkey and try to defy physics, I don't think I will make the flight.....besides...I'm from L.A. myself and I like Miami way too much.... :icon_rast.....LOL...

Anywayz...back to studying...Im going to have some more questions later tonight when I'm done...

peace out...

Da Lantern

If you have any more questions, let me know.

 

[Ironfeliks23]

Ok, I stand corrected. Least I know I got one wrong on the test. The way I looked at the question was not in the movement of the monkey, but its position. It is a fact that if you took the monkey off the rope and put him at the top, then took him off and put him on the bottom, then took him off and put him in the middle, the weight would not move. His position on the rope (as long as the weight on one side of the pulley is the same as the other) is irrelivant to the position of the weight. I missed the point of the question. I answered the problem wrong.

More importantly we know what to put on the test to get it right. If the monkey moves himself up the rope, the weight goes up.

 

[DaGreenLantern]

Hey everyone...I gotta few questions from the gouge that I downloaded from this site in DairyCreamer's post. In the Math section, which is by far my worst area, I need further explanations on problems 10, 12, 13, 30, 34, 41, and 43. I missed 4 more than that, but these are the ones I need a little further explanation.

The mechanical section is my strongest section by far, I only missed 5. These are the ones I need further explanations on: Numbers 8 (I don't understand how if you hold the pruners closer to the joint, it would make it easier to cut something according to the answer key....as opposed to holding it towards the end of the handles, giving more leverage, hence making it easier to cut???) 11, 30 ( even though one weight is larger than the other, they both weigh 5 lbs and are positioned at opposite ends of a board...if placed in H2O, it would float level and 1 side would not be higher than the other...right??? not according to the key...), 32 (didn't really understand the question), and 33 (another pulley problem....I thought I was straight on these)...

Please help me out...my test is Tues the 22nd and Im trying to understand my mistakes. I am just trying to take a humble approach and ask for help when I need it...Thank you all in advance!

By the way....there were more questions in the gouge than what ARCO claims is on the test, is there more time to complete each section as well?

peace out...


Da Lantern

 

[agentamulek]

as far as the cutters go, thats got to be wrong, you have a higher mechanical advantage by holding the handles further away from the joint which acts as the fulcrum. the 2 weights on the board can be a little tricky at first glance, but if you look carefully youll notice that both weight the same...the trick is that since they both weigh the same, the smaller one(on the left i believe, if i remember right) is more dense. since the smaller one is more dense it is also more prone to sink...that is the same principle ships use to float..they might weigh tons and tons, but since its less dense than the water, it will still float, where as a 1lb block thats packed into a smaller area will not float because it is more dense than the water. sorry to complicate that more than necessary...basically the small goes down because it is more dense...i hope that helps...the only problem is, when you take the test, they wont tell you which questions you got wrong, so if you have to take it again youll have a tough time stdying what you need to. i hope this helps and i wish you the best on your test, just make sure to get a good nights sleep the night before and wake up early enough for some breakfast

 

[agentamulek]

oh yeah, i almost forgot the pulley problem...sorry. its pretty hard to look at but once you get it down youll be ok. the MA (mechanical advantage) is equal to the number of parts of rope going to OR from the movable pulley supporting the weight. thats not an issue with number 33 in the guide though. so for that one you see option a is a fixed pulley system, and option b has a movable pulley. the movable pulley is going to require less effort and therefore the correct answer is a(because it is more difficult). good luck

 

[agentamulek]

dude..i cant beleive i missed your other questions the 2nd time around! my brain must be fried or something...the arco guide is right about the number of questions and time limits: mvt=37Q,35min mech=30Q,15min sat=35Q,10min and a/n=30Q,15min...same as the arco book says. the guide just gives you more questions so youll have extra material to study.

10. it says 3x exceeds 1/3 of y by 9, therefore, 3x minus 1/3 of y should equal 9 or 3x-1/3y=9

12.3 1/2 tons to to blow up a bridge, what would 1/3 of the bridge take...3 1/2 divided by 3= 1 1/6

13.this one is easy enough that you can just plug in the numbers. if you try the number 2, youll see that 2x2x2=8 and 8 divided by 2+2(4) = 2

30.i know its sad, but i knew this one as soon as i looked at it thanks to football...28=4 touchdowns and 7=1 touchdown....its not my fault though. anyway, the algebraic way to do it is 5x= the answer...see if the answer is easily divisible by 5, 35 is the only one that is divisible by 5 and is therefore the answer(28=4x7)

34.this one is just trying to confuse you with the format in which it is set up. its basically giving you y(-4+1) and you have to figure out what that equals. -4+1 = -3 so you have to find what times -3 is -6. the answer is therefore 2.

41.same as the other touchdown problem except no touchdowns this time. you can see there are 4 this time so 4x=answer so you have to choose the one which is divisble by 4. 16 is the only one that is divisble by 4 without decimals.

43.you have to factor out the numerator for this one. in other words, what, when multiplied together makes x squared+x-2...which you will find by factoring it out is (x-2)(x+1)...all you have to do there is cancel out the two (x+1) and youre left with x-2..

i just took the astb yesterday and it wasnt that bad. the math section was much easier than i thought it would be, and so was the mechanical. know the concepts in the guides and youll do fine. i hope these 3 posts answer your questions..i dont think i left anything out this time