The Boat School Boys

[BusyBee604]

The following is a link to the essay "The Boat School Boys", written by my longtime friend & Squadronmate, CAPT Dick "Beak" Stratton. An ol' A-4 driver and noted ex-6 year POW, Dick, a Georgetown grad, wrote this piece on the conduct, courage and contributions of his USNA fellow POWS in North Vietnam. An interesting "must read" for USNA alums, Middies & prospective applicants!

An excerpt from the closing section: "The greatest accolade given the USNA in the Vietnamese Communist prison was the statement Camp Commander, Major Bui, made to John Sidney McCain III, BSB, when John, son of the Commander in Chief Pacific, John, a man born to serve, refused an early propaganda release: 'They taught you too well, McCain! They have taught you too well, McCain.'

May we always continue to teach the Midshipmen 'too well'."

http://www.pownetwork.org/biog/s/s122.htm

* Scroll down about 1/2 way to title 'The Boat School Boys', a short,but worthwhile read!
**If the 'this link appers to be broken' page pops up, just click on the google search box on that page, then Bio at the top.
BzB

 

[wlawr005]

http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/s/s122.htm

Fixed it for you, Sir. I was able to find the article here. Thanks for sharing!

 

[MAKE VAPES]

In crisis action budgetary times, it is difficult to put a dollar figure on the worth of Freddie's Finishing School for Boat Chugs when OCS and ROTC grads can't possibly be proven less capable officers and aviators for 1/10th the price.

Although directly equating the caliber of today's folks coming from FFSFBC to those Capt Stratton illustrates might be a stretch in my mind, it does lend credibility to some of the intangible qualities the budgeteers lose sight of...

Good find!

 

[Catmando]

Not being a 'Boat School Boy' I still read the entire article. I am glad I did! I was moved by Stratton's words.

I accidentally had the honor and privilege of witnessing CAPT Dick "Beak" Stratton and many of his former POWs arrive at Clark AFB in the PI from Hanoi during Operation Homecoming.

I was up from Cubi Pt. chasing Clark's teachers' and nurses' skirts when we suddenly learned, "they were coming home!"

More than one as I watched – and Beak may have been one – deplaned proudly after years in captivity and brutal torture, in fresh new uniforms and knelt to kiss the free, USA concrete ramp of Clark AFB.
One of the most moving experiences of my life!

Link

 

[insanebikerboy]

In crisis action budgetary times, it is difficult to put a dollar figure on the worth of Freddie's Finishing School for Boat Chugs when OCS and ROTC grads can't possibly be proven less capable officers and aviators for 1/10th the price.

You know, the interesting thing is that ROTC scholarship grads are the least likely to stay in the military when compared to academy, ROTC non-scholarship, and OCS commissions.

That has absolutely nothing to do with performance, but it is an interesting retention factoid.

 

[KBayDog]

You know, the interesting thing is that ROTC scholarship grads are the least likely to stay in the military when compared to academy, ROTC non-scholarship, and OCS commissions.

That has absolutely nothing to do with performance, but it is an interesting retention factoid.

That's because, perhaps, that ROTC scholarship grads know that these walls are funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, you get so you depend on them.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Defenders of FFSFBC will tout the number of Flags who came from their "proud" institution, but when you analyze it, you realize promotion rates are not an independent variable.... much depends on the folks pressing the buttons percieving you as a younger version of themselves... a dependednt variable due the to the "self licking ice cream cone" effect.

Having 4 years of self-inflicted micro-POW camp I'm sure had benefits in Hanoi. Im also sure the "gauntlet" the Academy was in Sen McCain's day isn't duplicated to any appreciable amount today.

 

[Jim123]

That's because, perhaps, that ROTC scholarship grads know that these walls are funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, you get so you depend on them.

"He cries whenever we take him out so just leave him in there all the time."

 

[insanebikerboy]

Im also sure the "gauntlet" the Academy was in Sen McCain's day isn't duplicated to any appreciable amount today.

Yup

 

[helolumpy]

I saw a study that showed no correlation to the success an officer had in the Navy (success being defined as completing a command tour) and their comissioning source. There was no statisitcal advantage to going to the academy when it came to getting command.
A second study showed no linkage between college degree and getting command, but that is another argument.

 

[MasterBates]

I've seen COs come from all backgrounds. It VAW it seemed to be an even mix, HSL was fairly USNA dominant.

Flag Officers.. I'm trying to remember the last non USNA one I met or served under.

 

[Renegade One]

I saw a study that showed no correlation to the success an officer had in the Navy (success being defined as completing a command tour) and their comissioning source. There was no statisitcal advantage to going to the academy when it came to getting command.
A second study showed no linkage between college degree and getting command, but that is another argument.

Concur with everything above...which is all defined as "up to command". I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a greater "Skull & Bones Effect" after that. No data to support that...

 

[SlickAg]

http://talesofseasia.com/

Lots more of his anecdotes and sea stories

 

[Sky-Pig]

First off, in full disclosure, I'm a USNA grad.

My experience is that there are differences between the commissioning sources...in the same way that there are differences within each commissioning source...each year group...each OCS class etc...because they are all composed of individuals.

We are on-guarded to roll our eyes at the word "diversity"...but I see this as the good sort of diversity (like the other cholesterol). I've seen absolutely nothing in my 19 years of parole from Annapolis to justify any claims of superiority or inferiority for any of the commissioning sources.

What I believe (no facts just anecdotal observations) is that the multiplicity of officer accession sources works to the advantage of wannabe officers...not every one at ages 18-21 is ready for the (relative) freedom of ROTC at a big university...or for the constraints of Annapolis...or qualifed for OCS. By the time you earn your butter bars and/or when you pin on your wings...all the accessions from all the commissioning sources seem to figure it out (or not) at the same rate. I had the opportunity to go either ROTC or USNA...and I chose USNA. I still wonder (in light of my academic struggles at USNA that were directly related to poor study habits coming out of high school) if I would have failed out as a ROTC midshipmen simply due to the relative lack of structure and oversight at a civilian institution.

Unless a guy wears his class ring/college sweatshirt/OCS shirt...I find it nigh impossible to figure out where he/she came from. I've found an equal ratio of superstar/good guy/jerk/oxygen thieves from all the sources. More to the point, I don't really care...just do your job and buy me a round if I buy you a round. I'm proud of being a boat schooler...but not inordinately proud...it shaped me but did not define me as a Naval officer.

In terms of best value/bang for our buck (pick your term)...the upfront costs of a USNA grad are probably higher...and worthy of a hard look from the green lamp shade types. However, the nice thing about USNA is that is a sure thing...civilian institutions can (and have) rejected ROTC units. It's always nice to have an ace in the hole.

I would also think, but would welcome confirmation/negation from a BUPERS/CRUITCOM type, that the various lead times for each source (4 years in the pipe for USNA/ROTC) versus in-the-FY variability of OCS allows for some clever manpower leveling tricks to better balance the officer end-strength.

At the end of the day, again in my opinion, anyone who puffs up his chest and proclaims the obvious more betterness of his commissioning source is off-base. Are there jerks who graduate from Annapolis? Sure...and there are some real losers from ROTC and OCS, too. Don't confuse the individual variation for a blanket condemnation of the institution.

And for any wannabe trying to decide which path to take...go whichever path works for you.

My 2 cents...

 

[phrogpilot73]

At the end of the day, again in my opinion, anyone who puffs up his chest and proclaims the obvious more betterness of his commissioning source is off-base. Are there jerks who graduate from Annapolis? Sure...and there are some real losers from ROTC and OCS, too. Don't confuse the individual variation for a blanket condemnation of the institution.

I went to USNA, and my wife is an OCS grad. She has pretty much unlimited potential in her community in the Navy (if she wanted to stick it out, she'd make O-6 or higher). I'm going to retire as a Maj in the reserves. I guess when you really look at it, the DoN got more out of the money they invested in her time at OCS vs. Me going to USNA...

And for any wannabe trying to decide which path to take...go whichever path works for you.

Yup! Great advice, and always appropriate to post...