The break

[petescheu]

BTW ..... in case none of you have noticed .... this has "morphed" into an excellent discussion of .... FLYYING ..... as in "stuff that counts" .... instead of the usual AW drivel about video games, what do I use to clear up my pimples, who has the baddest car and, of course, who has the largest penis on AW ??? ....

.... and of course, the answer to that is: none of you. ) once again)

Actually yeah I have been pleasantly surprised recently at how many fleet aviators have joined recently... don't know how the word got out, but it's nice. Not to crap on the high school kids, we were all there once, but the experience is a nice change, to say the least.
At least A4s still uses boldface all the time.... ahh, i guess some things just don't change (although what happened to all the pictures???).

 

[petescheu]

For those of you who are having trouble visualizing the pattern, here ya go:

Ahhh, so THAT's what I was doing wrong... it all makes sense now.

 

[eddie]

The Attachment:

Are those numbers (90; 180) just angles on the unit circle, or are they altitudes?

 

[HH-60H]

Yes, those numbers relate to "where" you are in the pattern. So at the 180, you are in fact 180 deg out from rwy hdg, and generally abeam the numbers.

 

[HH-60H]

Airspeed.

Are you joking?

 

[Fly Navy]

Airspeed.

Uh no.

 

[Fly Navy]

Yes, those numbers relate to "where" you are in the pattern. So at the 180, you are in fact 180 deg out from rwy hdg, and generally abeam the numbers.

Guess that may depend what you're flying. We have the abeam position which is abeam your intended point of landing, and the 180 is abeam the start.

 

[chiplee]

The Attachment:

Are those numbers (90; 180) just angles on the unit circle, or are they altitudes?

they're angles but they're wrong in the picture. the 180 is depicted at the abeam position. the 90 is right, in that you have "90 degrees of turn to go prior to rolling out on final, or in the groove" the 180, means the same thing, but is past the abeam unless you want to roll out and touch down at the same exact time. In a no wind situation the 180 will be exactly the same distance past the abeam as your groove length.

 

[A4sForever]

they're angles but they're wrong in the picture. the 180 is depicted at the abeam position. the 90 is right, in that you have "90 degrees of turn to go prior to rolling out on final, or in the groove" the 180, means the same thing, but is past the.....blah ..... blah ..... blah ........(boldface & italics mine)

For God's Sake !!!! There is NOTHING wrong with the 180 depiction in the 180/90/field attachment !!!! The 180 is EXACTLY as depicted .... you're splitting hairs and you will drive yourself and everyone around you insane in 5-10 years if you do not lighten up/quit being so constipated !!!!

 

[Pags]

they're angles but they're wrong in the picture. the 180 is depicted at the abeam position. the 90 is right, in that you have "90 degrees of turn to go prior to rolling out on final, or in the groove" the 180, means the same thing, but is past the abeam unless you want to roll out and touch down at the same exact time. In a no wind situation the 180 will be exactly the same distance past the abeam as your groove length.

i wasn't trying to be exact, just get the general idea across. i was pretty sure that everyone who was arguing the finer points of the break are already familiar with the pattern, it was something i threw together in a few minutes in response to screamtruth's questions.

 

[HH-60H]

Guess that may depend what you're flying. We have the abeam position which is abeam your intended point of landing, and the 180 is abeam the start.

Yeah, that's true. I forgot that from my FW days (all 6 months of them). Since we don't have to worry about that stall/loss of lift thing, we can pretty much jack up a pattern any way we want, and still land on the numbers. In fact, we could maintain pattern altitude, make a base turn (at alt), start the decent at the overrun and land on the numbers (safely).

 

[chiplee]

For God's Sake !!!! There is NOTHING wrong with the 180 depiction in the 180/90/field attachment !!!! The 180 is EXACTLY as depicted .... you're splitting hairs and you will drive yourself and everyone around you insane in 5-10 years if you do not lighten up/quit being so constipated !!!!

wow, the guy wanted clarification, so I gave it to him. I didn't just take it upon myself to point out that the pic was wrong, in fact I didn't even look at the pic until someone wanted to know what the numbers on it meant. If you think I'm the one who needs to lighten up then I'll consider it, but damn man. There is a difference. At the ship the 180 and the abeam are pretty much the same place, but only because the ship continues to steam into the wind, giving you the groove length you need. In some very high wind situations the 180 will be before the abeam position in fact. At the field it's important for young guys to understand the difference. I am in no way splitting hairs though, and that depiction is not anything even remotely similar to "EXACTLY" right

there's correct, and there's incorrect. That depiction is simply incorrect. The author recognizes it, and was kind enough to go to the trouble to create the illustration, why not point out for an impressionable young member that it's not EXACTLY right.

 

[A4sForever]

wow, ....... That depiction is simply .....

Sorry, but you might be falling into the idiot-savant category. 180 means you have 180 degrees to turn to runway heading to align the aircraft for landing. It moves --- depending on wind --- the depiction of a generic pattern was correct ---- but then you would know more about that than ..... say .....me (?), for example ..... right ???

At the ship ... you have more than 180 degrees to turn, day pattern. The ship has an angle --- usually around 10 degrees. Sooooooo .... should we call it the 190 position ??? Of course not --- 'cause then we'd be idiots .... yes???

 

[chiplee]

Sorry, but you might be falling into the idiot-savant category. 180 means you have 180 degrees to turn to runway heading to align the aircraft for landing. It moves --- depending on wind --- the depiction of a generic pattern was correct ---- but then you would know more about that that ..... me (?) ..... right ???

At the ship ... you have more than 180 degrees to turn, day pattern. The ship has an angle --- usually around 10 degrees. Sooooooo .... should we call it the 190 position ??? Of course not --- 'cause then we'd be idiots .... yes???

listen man, that's a great point about the angle, but he didn't depict a ship, he depicted a runway, and that illustration is absolutely dead f'ing wrong, no question about it. Don't start calling names for nothing, we're all on the same team here. I'm telling you, at the field, the 180, is 15 seconds past the abeam, for a 15 second groove length, in a no wind situation. that is not disputable, and I will not qualify another of your posts with a response, unless it is to say "I stand corrected" in which case I'll say "thank you"

 

[Screamtruth]

listen man, that's a great point about the angle, but he didn't depict a ship, he depicted a runway, and that illustration is absolutely dead f'ing wrong, no question about it. Don't start calling names for nothing, we're all on the same team here. I'm telling you, at the field, the 180, is 15 seconds past the abeam, for a 15 second groove length, in a no wind situation. that is not disputable, and I will not qualify another of your posts with a response, unless it is to say "I stand corrected" in which case I'll say "thank you"

I don't mean to be the dumbass here, but what do you mean by the groove? Also I cannot see the pictures with the pattern numbers on them, but what are yall talking about with the 180's and the 90's?