MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I'd have to see the FBD on that.. It almost looks like they try to use a component of thrust for "lift" but I don't know where the CGs are to figure out the pitching moments.
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The Great, Constantly Changing Picture Gallery
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Raptor2216
Registered User
I'm also curious about those flaps...they look more like speed brakes than anything else. I just don't see how they could be efficient at that angle. Would someone like to enlighten me?
Wouldn't surprise me. Phantom was a pure brute force design. I was once told that it was such a pig off the cat that there is a switch on the nosewheel (actuated by the lineman) that jacks up the nose a bit more for more lift. Also, you took off with full aft stick and had to finesse it down to avoid over rotating
. Some of Old RO's pics also show massively drooped flaps deployed when under tension, which would suggest that baby needed ever'thing she could get to get up and away from the boat.Then again, there were some serious handling characteristics issues that were discovered in late stage wind-tunnel tests and even optest, hence the 12 deg up wingtips for lateral stabilitiy and the droopy tailplane for maneuverability. An unfavorable pitching moment could be mitigated by downward thrust near the back end. . .
Where the heck are all the old guys to answer these burning questions?
Yes, I can't wait till our first event together, since mine with XJ was so successful
Did he tell you we all call him Cabbage?
Here are a few pictures from my tour on the USS Lexington last week.
GH3 Nightingale
Judging by the state of the flight deck, they're not taking any better care of Lex than they did last time I saw the boat in '99. Not slamming the volunteers - I'm sure they do the best they can with what they're given - but the ship was in a pretty sorry state.
Pretty much all - for the most part - true.Wouldn't surprise me. Phantom was a pure brute force design. I was once told that it was such a pig off the cat that there is a switch on the nosewheel (actuated by the lineman) that jacks up the nose a bit more for more lift. Also, you took off with full aft stick and had to finesse it down to avoid over rotating
Then again, there were some serious handling characteristics issues that were discovered in late stage wind-tunnel tests and even optest, hence the 12 deg up wingtips for lateral stabilitiy and the droopy tailplane for maneuverability. An unfavorable pitching moment could be mitigated by downward thrust near the back end. . .
Where the heck are all the old guys to answer these burning questions?
You were "told" well. 
The nose gear strut extension was used to increase the F-4's [needed] angle of attack for catapult launches. With a signal from the Catapult Officer, the pilot flipped a switch to port high-pressure air into the nose strut to extend it........ It automatically deflated with either weight-off wheels, or gear-handle-UP.
In addition to the extended nose strut, and high angle flaps (which are only half-flaps for T.O.), the aircraft also needed "Boundary Layer Control Air". This was hot, 17th stage bleed air blown over the wings from tiny holes along the leading edges, that precluded boudary-layer air separation (and stall) that would normally be caused by the high angles of the leading and trailing edge devices. (BTW, hot BLC leaks in the wings or wing root caused a number of lost aircraft)
The F-4 could be quite squirrelly on a cat shot if you didn't know what you were doing. Even with the added angle of attack of the extended nose strut, it was still "a little slow" to rotate to proper climb attitude. But once it finally did start to "nose-up" it then did so rapidly! Thus, wild over-rotations off the cat were not uncommon for the new nugget.
The stick position for the shot was "all the way aft to the stop, then forward maybe an 'inch or two'." But as you felt the nose finally start to come up after the shot, you had to catch it quick with forward stick to keep from over-rotating. It was fun!
We sometimes used to put on mini-air shows by doing low transitions off the cat... much to the dismay of the Air Boss....but that is another story.
Below is one of our F-4Bs with its nose strut extended for the cat shot.
I'd guess it looks worse, I've got a few pictures of aircraft that are on display but need some real work done on them. Parts missing, corrosion, and just bad shape. I don't think the volunteers are getting the funds that are needed to keep the Lex up. I did leave a nice donation before I left though.
Sad end to this Phantom and the Pilot.
1981 April 15 -- USMC LCOL John C. Mc Annally, from El Toro, lost his life when his VMFA-323 F-4N Phantom II (153026) flew into the ground on Leach Lake Range, China Lake.
Pretty much all - for the most part - true.
Below is one of our F-4Bs with its nose strut extended for the cat shot.
Your comments on extending the nose strut for F-4 cat shots reminded me of my first 2 cruises (I am a career A-4 driver from the 60s & 70s), when we had your Phantum's "daddies" - one F3H Demon squadron aboard. I recall that they had to pump up their nose strut also. I remember them absolutely struggling to accelerate off the cat. Was also glad I wasn't in a Demon squadron.
The Demons had REAL problems; A Sparrow misile system - totally unreliable; an underpowered engine that had a tendency to flame out in clouds at altitude (not too cool for a single-engine "all-weather" fighter flying over the open ocean all the time???). You were lucky to fly the "spook" instead of the Demon.
I've also heard that in the beginning of the Demon production at Lambert Field in St. Louis, they lost several aircraft on takeoff, going off the end of the runway due to the under-powered engine. They started trucking new production aircraft to the nearest military airbase(s) with longer runways, for ferry delivery to Navy squadrons.
If I had been a Fighter Pilot in those days, I would have much preferred the ol' Crusader!
BzB:icon_smil
The first batch of Demons had the infamous J40 engine... the little engine that couldn't. The later versions had the J71, which wasn't that much better... but much better than the J40. The pilots were directed to avoid "visible moisture" in flight, due to flameout problems.
A great number of the first Demons were towed through the streets of St. Louis and onto barges on the Mississippi River and were offloaded at Memphis and sent to Millington to use as ground trainers for the A-School lads there.
When the F-4 came along (known in the pre 1962 days as the F4H), the standing joke around the factory in St. Louis was that the outer wingtips were canted upward on the Phantom so as to clear the fire plugs on the St. Louis street corners when they were towed down to the barges.
Answers to most all the "why is it that way" questions on the F-4 can be found in the 1996 Naval Institute Press book "Engineering the F-4 Phantom II: Parts into Systems" by Glenn E. Bugos
Clicky
This is kind of a cool video. I don't know if this is "over-rotating" or not, but cool to watch anyhow...
Pretty much "ops-normal" flight ops. The closest to an over-rotation was the VF-21 Phantom at the end of the clip. On a really colorful shot you could see the entire top of the aircraft and then it would usually fall off on a wing and flutter off into the distance.
Not the U.S......
It's eery how much the Hindu Kush look like the Rocky Mountains. Beautiful pictures, though.
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