The Great Pirates off the Somali Coast thread

[Uncle Fester]

News says there were four pirates on board: two were killed during the boarding and two were apparently already dead. Sounds like the situation just plain went to shit, as can happen in a hostage situation with armed, nervous, doped-up, cornered hostage takers.

Reacting to pirates isn't going to fix this situation, especially not the catch-and-release nonsense of late. It won't stop until one of three things happens: piracy becomes too dangerous for the pirates (convoys, armed guards aboard), or it becomes unprofitable (ransom isn't paid), or the safe havens ashore are eliminated, i.e., scary dudes with guns.

None of the options being politically palatable, I think this isn't the last time this will happen.

 

[bucks87]

Reacting to pirates isn't going to fix this situation, especially not the catch-and-release nonsense of late. It won't stop until one of three things happens: piracy becomes too dangerous for the pirates (convoys, armed guards aboard), or it becomes unprofitable (ransom isn't paid), or the safe havens ashore are eliminated, i.e., scary dudes with guns.

None of the options being politically palatable, I think this isn't the last time this will happen.

I agree with you there, and I dont see #2 happening. $3-$4 million ransom is not much compared to the cost of a ship and cargo, and is really the only option to companies of countries who don't have a navy in the area to retrieve said ship.

 

[Swanee]

News says there were four pirates on board: two were killed during the boarding and two were apparently already dead. Sounds like the situation just plain went to shit, as can happen in a hostage situation with armed, nervous, doped-up, cornered hostage takers.

Reacting to pirates isn't going to fix this situation, especially not the catch-and-release nonsense of late. It won't stop until one of three things happens: piracy becomes too dangerous for the pirates (convoys, armed guards aboard), or it becomes unprofitable (ransom isn't paid), or the safe havens ashore are eliminated, i.e., scary dudes with guns.

None of the options being politically palatable, I think this isn't the last time this will happen.

At one point our nation had the balls to send Presley O'bannon after pirate safe-havens.

 

[fc2spyguy]

The Navy or the Federal Government is being re-imbursed for expenses relating to the re-capture of these cargo ships by the companies that insured them right?

I wouldn't agree with that. At what point does that cross the line of mercenary forces?

 

[SynixMan]

Anyone else hear VADM Fox's comments? One of the pirates was dispatched with a knife by a SF operator. Wow...

 

[BigRed389]

The Navy or the Federal Government is being re-imbursed for expenses relating to the re-capture of these cargo ships by the companies that insured them right?

We've only done it twice, IIRC. Considering how long we've had God knows how many ships and other land based assets deployed to the region, that would still be a shitty return on our investment.

Given that we'll never have the national balls to eliminate the problem (ie take out the coastal settlements that they are based from), we'll just continue doing what we've done, and continue the TSC mission in the hopes the E. African nations get their collective shit together to effectively patrol the area.

And on a side note, last time I was there we saw some S Korean fishing boats operating in clear sight of the Somali coast. When queried, they said they had contractors with crew served weapons onboard. And the Somalis didn't mess with them either.

 

[A4sForever]

... One of the pirates was dispatched with a knife by a SF operator. Wow...

WOW, indeed ...

The only question I have is: WHEN, oh when, are WE gonna' "get serious" about the 'pirate' vermin and 'go downtown' on 'em and kill as many as we can in as short of time as possible where they live & breathe ... ??? You know; just to show 'em 'we care' ... ???

Seriously ... there is no 'government' there ... there is no 'law' there. Who, with the exception of the perpetual U.S. haters & critics, is going to find something to criticize in that righteous deed ... ???

 

[Gatordev]

WOW, indeed ...

The only question I have is: WHEN, oh when, are WE gonna' "get serious" about the 'pirate' vermin and 'go downtown' on 'em and kill as many as we can in as short of time as possible where they live & breathe ... ??? You know; just to show 'em 'we care' ... ???

Seriously ... there is no 'government' there ... there is no 'law' there. Who, with the exception of the perpetual U.S. haters & critics, is going to find something to criticize in that righteous deed ... ???

Having just had a brief on the "updated" instruction for Use of Force for helos, it's not going to be anytime soon. We need to make sure we don't offend the bad guys.

 

[BACONATOR]

Anyone else hear VADM Fox's comments? One of the pirates was dispatched with a knife by a SF operator. Wow...

I heard this from my buddy. That's how it should be. You hurt Americans, and you get knifed in the effing FACE! Send a message. Good riddance.

 

[Flash]

....Given that we'll never have the national balls to eliminate the problem (ie take out the coastal settlements that they are based from), we'll just continue doing what we've done, and continue the TSC mission in the hopes the E. African nations get their collective shit together to effectively patrol the area......

.....The only question I have is: WHEN, oh when, are WE gonna' "get serious" about the 'pirate' vermin and 'go downtown' on 'em and kill as many as we can in as short of time as possible where they live & breathe ... ??? You know; just to show 'em 'we care' ... ???.......

The problem is picking out the wheat from the chaff on top of going after the right people. It's not like these guys all hang out in the same place or in some castle on the coast, they are hanging out with the regular folks in regular coastal towns. You would need a pretty robust effort to figure out who the bad guys are mixed in with all the citizens. Are we willing to divert vital resources away from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to try and figure that out? Then it is a question of who do you go after. Is it just the gunmen or is it their backers, the money men behind the scenes who get most of the profit? It is not like your local pirate is going to know who to call in London to negotiate a ransom and release. And on top of all that it's not like it is a conventional or centralized effort to begin with, almost the exact opposite, more like whack-a-mole.

Until then we will make continue to make sure that those who do take Americans at sea will pay dearly for their mistake.

 

[scoolbubba]

Maybe bombing the shit out of their camps every time we see a bunch of activity would be somewhere to start. It's not like they go to great lengths to hide what they are doing.

Small camp in the middle of nowhere that suddenly fills up with a bunch of young to middle aged males everytime a merchant comes through=Tomahawk. Next question.

 

[Flash]

Maybe bombing the shit out of their camps every time we see a bunch of activity would be somewhere to start. It's not like they go to great lengths to hide what they are doing.

Small camp in the middle of nowhere that suddenly fills up with a bunch of young to middle aged males everytime a merchant comes through=Tomahawk. Next question.

What if the camp is filled with camp followers, like women and children? Think we will be able to pick out the guys from the gals? You can't pick out a TV camera from an RPG from a few thousand feet up.......All we need is to have that splashed all over the news. And Tomahawk? By the time it gets there they will be gone. Next stupid idea.

 

[A4sForever]

What if the camp is filled with camp followers, like women and children?...

You mean like killing innocents and/or taking innocent people hostage ??? Like the 'pirates' are already doing ??? Or do you mean dropping in for a visit on their camps like we're doing with UAV's right now ??? Is that a problem ???

I think the 'pirates' have already crossed that line ... to NOT respond 'forcefully' will only encourage more 'bad behavior'.

 

[scoolbubba]

You can't pick out a TV camera from an RPG from a few thousand feet up......

Yea you can. Next stupid answer?

 

[Flash]

You mean like killing innocents and/or taking innocent people hostage ??? Like the 'pirates' are already doing ??? Or do you mean dropping in for a visit on their camps like we're doing with UAV's right now ??? Is that a problem ???

I think the 'pirates' have already crossed that line ... to NOT respond 'forcefully' will only encourage more 'bad behavior'.

Okay, so maybe we hit a camp or two, maybe even three. What then? What about hundreds of hostages of the dozens of ships they have right now spread out all along the Somali coastline and apparently on land too? Are we going to rescue all of them? Not a simple undertaking by any stretch. And just how many are Americans? What if they start killing those hostages? How do you think our friends, acquaintances and allies whose citizens are among the hostages will feel about that? So far the pirates have killed only a very small handful of hostages they have held, the murder of the 4 Americans on the yacht appears to have been a result of a dispute among the pirates from what little info publicly available now. If we strike a land base expect the survival rate of the many remaining hostages to change. But I guess we should just shoot now and worry about all that bothersome shit later, or maybe not at all!

Yea you can. Next stupid answer?

Apparently combat-experienced Apache pilots couldn't a few years back, what makes you so special? Moot point anyways, not like the P-3's will be doing much shooting of anything.