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The Great Pirates off the Somali Coast thread
- Thread starter Beefalo
- Start date
ACTUALLY .... check your Naval History ....
In WW2 and prior ..... it happened occasionally on count 1 and all the time on count 2 ....
We have in the past... so I would say yes. We don't give a shit when the boat captured belongs to some third world country we don't really care about in the grand scheme of things and has cargo we don't care about, but when the boat belongs to one of our allies or carries important/dangerous cargo, we pay very close attention.
CWJones411
IRR
Drunk post much?
I'm under no illusions either. If you look at all of our actual exports, including merchandise and "services," you will find that our stabilizing presence is by far the most valuable because it all but guarantees the rest of our exports.
I'm not saying that we're actively trying to stabilize the entire globe all at once, but that we definitely do provide a stabilizing force to numerous regions. Economics prosper in stability, and so the stability we provide has to be considered our most important export. You can try to make the argument that our global reach and forward presence are not a literal export of stability, but that is merely semantics.
When it comes to piracy, that is just a clear-cut example of how economic prosperity is directly linked to security. Generally speaking, stopping pirates is good business.
ACTUALLY .... check your Naval History ....
In WW2 and prior ..... it happened occasionally on count 1 and all the time on count 2 ....
Okay, perhaps I should have worded it: "the ship probably has a better chance at hitting itself than another surface vessel."
My comment (in jest....sort of) was more about weapon abilities (or lack thereof) and not weapon capabilities.
When? During the Barbary Wars? And do you realize how few ships we have nowadays? It is not like we have 4 or 5 FFG/DDG/CG's to spare for a few months to go chase after thugs in in skiffs shooting up ships with AK-47's and RPG's.
Do we care that it is full of ammo and tanks? Sure. And we are making sure that they are not going to get any of it. And how the hell are they going to get the tanks off anyways? But is more Ukraine's problem than ours, and Kenya's if you believe they were buying the cargo.
Again, have any American ships or goods been hijacked? Has it impeded the flow of any of our trade through the area? Are ships staying away from the main routes that go through that area? The answer to all of the above is largely no.
The piracy is hardly affecting us at all. It makes good press because it is so unusual and is a bit of an anachronism, a leftover from another age. But how is going after these pirates going to help us much? Make us feel better about ourselves? And while the piacy out of Somalia is a direct result of the choas and anarchy in the country, killing a few pirates ain't exactly going to solve any of those problems inherent to what is going on past the beach. We already tried to fix it once and Ethiopia is trying to fix it now, hasn't really worked out too well in either case. So I am not sure how you think that shooting up a few skiffs with thugs in them is going to help much at all. There are plenty back on land that would gladly take their place for the returns they are getting.
What is this fascination with blowing things up/sinking ships? Oh, wait.....nevermind.
Bombs away!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4TCqcWkDM0
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4837484.stm
:snorkel_1
Yeah, too bad we don't have the capability to stick 5-10 relatively cheap gun ships (something like a mothballed DD's/DDE) in the I.O. on permanent "pirate watch" ... oh, wait -- we don't have any gun ships anymore or enough personnel to man 5-10 if we did ... just a relatively few $$$$ hi-tech gee-whiz missile/electron boats that are so expensive we don't get very many of 'em ... and don't forget all the money that has to go towards new plasma TV's every couple years in the MWR gym, that takes resources too ...
... plus, we gotta provide for the salaries of those 800 +/- flag & general officers that we're capped for these days ... ... and new "artistic" concrete signs in front of Capehart Housing so we'll all know where it is ... ... and newer eco-friendly fuel tanks at the NEX gas station ... ... and, and, and .... :sleep_125All that stuff takes money.
Even a large handful of coastal capable FPB's in the I.O. and S.China Sea would be nice ...
Sorry for drifting ... :sleep_125
I weep for the future ....
American ships haven't been hijacked that I'm aware of, but that doesn't mean we're not affected. Shipping insurance rates have gone up significantly, affected global trade slightly, and ships do actively try to avoid that part of the Indian Ocean. If I'm not mistaken, that Ukrainian ship or one of the other recently hijacked ships was actually about 300 miles out, trying to avoid the troubled waters.
I will cede the point that it's not our biggest concern, and its affects on us are presently just a drop in the bucket. However, it is a problem that we are uniquely able to handle, perhaps, with what we have now. We won't be able to stop it, but we could certainly do more to slow it down and make it less profitable for the pirates.
I would also ask how dealing with piracy is any different from providing humanitarian aide to a nation after a natural disaster? We send a task group to many nations that suffer from typhoons or earthquakes, which have virtually no impact on us or "our interests" except the good press we get from helping, but we do it anyways. Why not do more to protect the freedom of the seas, as is one of our overarching strategic goals?
The major shipping lanes are still crowded.
Plenty of nations have combat ships and aircraft, they can help just as much as we can. As many now do including Denmark, Britain, Australia, Pakistan, Germany and France.
Piracy is not a short term problem in that region, and it is not something that can be fixed with the short presence of a task group to the area dumping off supplies and treating the sick for a week or two. It is a long term commitment of patrolling, waiting and watching for the needle in a haystack or a cry for help. The coast of Somalia is very long and filled with all sorts of maritime traffic, both legitimate and illicit. It would take a much larger and longer commitment of forces than you probably realize to severly affect the pirates and their operations. Which again, and I have to emphasize this, are not really as big a deal as has been depicted in the press. Insurance rates may have risen but I can assure you, there are plenty of merchantmen moving plying the sea lanes in the area. And the vast majority get to where they are supposed to without incident.
As for freedom of the seas, we still ensure it exists. But in terms of national priorities we have to make compromises and when you rack and stack 'em pirates are a bit lower than Al-Qaeda, Iraq, Iran, China, Russia, oil and a whole host of other things. That is the reality of national security.
So... our torps suck, or we just don't employ them / have no reason to and the skill as atrophied??
They really would be missile sponges in any other enviroment other than a low threat one off of Somalia. And while it would be ideal for the LCS, it would be one fo the few places it could go without one of those "hi-tech gee-whiz missile/electron boats". Fortunately or unfortunately, they are needed in today's threat enviroment. A newer FFG or even an FFL (corvette) would be ideal in this scenario.
The only problem with FPB/PHM/PT type boats would be where to base them. The pirates are generally a long way from friendly ports, an at-sea base would be needed like a TAO or LSD type. And that is a lot of dough too. Then there is the problem of what to do with them after you get done with the pirates, send them after Kilos?