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NEWS The Not So Friendly Skies....

RadicalDude

RadicalDude

Social Justice Warlord
LadyAsh said:
What's up with this?

http://fortune.com/2017/04/12/united-airlines-passenger-dragged-compensation/

I have seen multiple articles since yesterday about it but none explaining why this seems to be something necessary to do...

(apologies if someone posted this already, read through and didn't spot it but I may have overlooked it)
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Sometimes businesses spend money to ameliorate bad/traumatizing experiences for their customers. Like if one of the killer whales eats a trainer at Sea World.



Side note: Betting they wish they'd just rented their "must fly" aircrew a sedan or tried to non-rev them on another carrier.

Hell they could have rented a tour bus from Chicago to Kentucky for cheaper.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
RadicalDude said:
Sometimes businesses spend money to ameliorate bad/traumatizing experiences for their customers. Like if one of the killer whales eats a trainer at Sea World.



Side note: Betting they wish they'd just rented their "must fly" aircrew a sedan or tried to non-rev them on another carrier.

Hell they could have rented a tour bus from Chicago to Kentucky for cheaper.
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To suggest they drive shows your ignorance.
I would expect that an NFO that follows 3710 crew rest requirements would understand that.
 
RadicalDude

RadicalDude

Social Justice Warlord
Nasty Flyer said:
To suggest they drive shows your ignorance.
I would expect that an NFO that follows 3710 crew rest requirements would understand that.
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Look dude, be civil, I'm perfectly aware of what crew rest is.

It's a 4 hour drive. It's not inconceivable that it could work out. We have driven aircrew at night from divert fields of similar distance and had them fly the next day. You don't know what their follow-on schedule was. It is a perfectly reasonable scenario.

They could also have non-revved on another airline (there were several flights that night.)

I think we're both ignorant of the specifics of when the crew flew last, when their next flight was, and how urgent their being on that plane was. Unless you were there or know them? In which case, please enlighten us, you could clear up a lot of stuff.

This is, of course, all academic at this point. The CEO certainly seems to think they made the wrong call, as he has reiterated about ten times now on the news. Maybe he hasn't read 3710. ;)
 
GlassBanger

GlassBanger

IntelO
Contributor
RadicalDude said:
Sometimes businesses spend money to ameliorate bad/traumatizing experiences for their customers. Like if one of the killer whales eats a trainer at Sea World.
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That is so absurd. First the CEO almost breaks a leg back-peddling, and now they're issuing (what I see) as unnecessary refunds for a "traumatic experience". I am so frustrated lol
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
RadicalDude said:
Look dude, be civil, I'm perfectly aware of what crew rest is.

It's a 4 hour drive. It's not inconceivable that it could work out. We have driven aircrew at night from divert fields of similar distance and had them fly the next day. You don't know what their follow-on schedule was. It is a perfectly reasonable scenario.

They could also have non-revved on another airline (there were several flights that night.)

I think we're both ignorant of the specifics of when the crew flew last, when their next flight was, and how urgent their being on that plane was. Unless you were there or know them? In which case, please enlighten us, you could clear up a lot of stuff.

This is, of course, all academic at this point. The CEO certainly seems to think they made the wrong call, as he has reiterated about ten times now on the news. Maybe he hasn't read 3710. ;)
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You've been spewing sewage for three days and you know zero about the airline industry.

It's slightly different than being the assistant to the assistant operations officer scheduling five sorties a week.

Every major flys approximately 4000 flights a day. United alone has almost 90,000 employees.
They have over a half a dozen subcontractors that also fly routes. Those subcontractors have their own scheduling departments, Cruz movements, training departments, airplanes etc. etc. etc.

Your 50 hours in a T6 and NFO wings do not qualify you to even have this discussion.
 
RadicalDude

RadicalDude

Social Justice Warlord
Nasty Flyer said:
You've been spewing sewage for three days and you know zero about the airline industry.

It's slightly different than being the assistant to the assistant operations officer scheduling five sorties a week.

Every major flys approximately 4000 flights a day. United alone has almost 90,000 employees.
They have over a half a dozen subcontractors that also fly routes. Those subcontractors have their own scheduling departments, Cruz movements, training departments, airplanes etc. etc. etc.

Your 50 hours in a T6 and NFO wings do not qualify you to even have this discussion.
Click to expand...

Well at least you got the NFO jab in there. That's popular these days.

Don't think we have anything more to discuss here, pal.
 
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CAMike

CAMike

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Just viewed the video this morning of the Doc's lawyer media briefing. It'll be interesting to see who actually busted up the Doc's face. Bringing local PD onto an aircraft to "enforce" a corporate seating policy seems to invite unwanted complexity to the situation. LE demeanor varies from cop to cop. No Offense MadDog!
 
jarhead

jarhead

UAL CA; retired hinge
pilot
RadicalDude said:
Side note: Betting they wish they'd just rented their "must fly" aircrew a sedan or tried to non-rev them on another carrier.
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I can't speak to the contract between Republic Airlines and their pilots but at United, the contract is very specific about deadheading rules. Riding in a vehicle 4-5 hours is a no-go. Same with riding in the jumpseat, unless the deadheading pilot is generous and wants to give up his seat in the back, but that is not-recommended. The rules are specific enough that if the company doesn't follow them correctly, you get paid.
 
RadicalDude

RadicalDude

Social Justice Warlord
jarhead said:
I can't speak to the contract between Republic Airlines and their pilots but at United, the contract is very specific about deadheading rules. Riding in a vehicle 4-5 hours is a no-go. Same with riding in the jumpseat, unless the deadheading pilot is generous and wants to give up his seat in the back, but that is not-recommended. The rules are specific enough that if the company doesn't follow them correctly, you get paid.
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Interesting. Good to know.
 
GlassBanger

GlassBanger

IntelO
Contributor
CAMike said:
Just viewed the video this morning of the Doc's lawyer media briefing. It'll be interesting to see who actually busted up the Doc's face. Bringing local PD onto an aircraft to "enforce" a corporate seating policy seems to invite unwanted complexity to the situation. LE demeanor varies from cop to cop. No Offense MadDog!
Click to expand...

Weren't they the Airport PD and not PD from a local jurisdiction?
 
HAL Pilot

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
RadicalDude said:
Look dude, be civil, I'm perfectly aware of what crew rest is.

It's a 4 hour drive. It's not inconceivable that it could work out. We have driven aircrew at night from divert fields of similar distance and had them fly the next day. You don't know what their follow-on schedule was. It is a perfectly reasonable scenario.

They could also have non-revved on another airline (there were several flights that night.)

I think we're both ignorant of the specifics of when the crew flew last, when their next flight was, and how urgent their being on that plane was. Unless you were there or know them? In which case, please enlighten us, you could clear up a lot of stuff.

This is, of course, all academic at this point. The CEO certainly seems to think they made the wrong call, as he has reiterated about ten times now on the news. Maybe he hasn't read 3710. ;)
Click to expand...
Once again you open your mouth and stupid shit comes spewing forth.

Non-rev means non-revenue travel. I.e. the airline makes no revenue. It is a benefit to employees for personal travel. Airline-airline and airline-employee agreements specifically prohibit using non-rev travel for business. It also is standby travel so non-revs only get on a plane after all revenue pax get on. Further, any non-rev pax from their own airline would get on before a non-rev pax from another airline.

Yes they could have purchased tickets on another airline going to the same destination if they were available. However since all the airlines were still trying to recover from the massive schedule disruptions caused by severe weather (especially around Atlanta a major airline hub) a few days before, I doubt if there were seats available. In fact, there were many news stories about people who's flights had been cancelled in the previous days still being unable to get rebooked. There are many other reasons you use your own airline first, such as the possibility your crew gets bumped off the other airline's flight. I mean, who are they going to bump first, their paying pax or another airline's deadheading crew?

While I have no doubt you are ignorant of the facts, I doubt Nasty Flyer or any other airline pilot on here is ignorant. First, we as airline pilots have a pretty damn good understanding of why this happened (as far as the necessity to remove pax for deadheading crew). If the cops/security guards hadn't beat the guy up, this would not be news. Why the cops (security guards) decided to beat the guy up should be the story, not why the airline needed to bump pax. Bumping pax happens all the time and it 99% of the time a non-event.

Nasty Flyer flies for a major airline, his profile says The Show. So there is a pretty damn good chance he's a United pilot and he probably does have inside information which he is not free to discuss as everyone knows there is no true anonymity on the internet.

The CEO and almost every airline employee out there doesn't really think the airline did anything wrong. We all think things could have been handled better but the bottom line is that 4 pax needed bumped. Volunteers were requested, compensation was offered and there was still a need. Pax were selected by whatever means and one refused to comply with a procedure allowed by federal regulation and law. The CSA called security like he/she was supposed to when the pax did not cooperate. Security beat the guy up - not the airline's fault.

But because of social media and prevalence of cell phones with video, this became a PR nightmare. The CEO was forced to apologize not because United (Republic Airlines actually) did anything wrong, but because of public perception. Trying to fix this false public perception of wrong doing is also why the CEO is refunding the ticket price to all the other pax.

The real issue in this whole thing is why did the cops react they way they did. The CSAs and FAs certainly didn't expect it nor did United or Republic Airlines. No one I know in the industry expects cops or security to immediately apply excessive force. We all expect that the airport security/cops are trained to handle unruly pax in lest intrusive way only slowly ratcheting up the level of force as required by the situation. Security here obviously did not do that.
 
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