Here’s a nifty link that should give folks a glimpse into the health of the airlines.
TSA measured passenger traffic system wide now Vs this time in 2019.
TSA measured passenger traffic system wide now Vs this time in 2019.
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The SHOW: Airlines still a "good gig"??
- Thread starter A4sForever
- Start date
On the plus side, you're probably not dealing with everyone's "comfort animal" these days...
Stopping to say hello to dogs in the terminal used to be the best part of my day...
Although I'm not a dog fanatic, I must say that the dogs I see in the terminal are generally smarter and better mannered than a significant percentage of the traveling public.
are you guys talking about women you meet in the airport?
Reading on another website that UAL just pushed 4,500 displacements. Not being an airline guy, how does a displacement differ from a furlough?
It means they are planning to furlough. The airline bailout stipulated no furloughs until October 1, 2020. But it did not say the airlines could position for a furlough.
Furloughs come from the bottom. The displacement bid reduces the number of pilots in the various fleets. Those that aren’t being furloughed have to be retrained if their seat went away. Normally this makes furloughs uneconomical if the reduction in flying is short term since the retraining needs to happen before the furloughed pilot hits the street. This is a months long process. However this time the airlines got a free 6 month period to retrain pilots so they can boot them at the first possible date.
Management never lets an opportunity go to waste. While they are meeting the letter of the law wrt the bailout, they aren’t really meeting the spirit with this trick.
Hopefully a vaccine and treatment comes quickly and the public feels safe to start traveling again. Different airlines have a different thought when this will start happening again. United is planning on a 3+ year turn around. Management at Hawaiian thinks we will be at our preCOVID flying by early to mid 2021. We might have some furloughs but I don’t think they will be as big (percentage of pilots wise) or as long as United is planning.
You can also expect some sort of early retirement packages at most majors (like AA has already offered). This will lessen furloughs a little too.
Furloughs come from the bottom. The displacement bid reduces the number of pilots in the various fleets. Those that aren’t being furloughed have to be retrained if their seat went away. Normally this makes furloughs uneconomical if the reduction in flying is short term since the retraining needs to happen before the furloughed pilot hits the street. This is a months long process. However this time the airlines got a free 6 month period to retrain pilots so they can boot them at the first possible date.
Management never lets an opportunity go to waste. While they are meeting the letter of the law wrt the bailout, they aren’t really meeting the spirit with this trick.
Hopefully a vaccine and treatment comes quickly and the public feels safe to start traveling again. Different airlines have a different thought when this will start happening again. United is planning on a 3+ year turn around. Management at Hawaiian thinks we will be at our preCOVID flying by early to mid 2021. We might have some furloughs but I don’t think they will be as big (percentage of pilots wise) or as long as United is planning.
You can also expect some sort of early retirement packages at most majors (like AA has already offered). This will lessen furloughs a little too.
I forget what you've gone to fly in the AF/ANG. If it's a fixed wing Guard unit then there are probably plenty of airline guys to walk you through the finer points. Here are some fundamental differences and a broad analogy:
Everything is seniority-based, very simple. (About the only thing remotely resembling a #1EP is if you want to upgrade from captain to check airman, which is merit-based, and loosely equivalent to ANI.) "Seat" = crew position (the AC and 2P switching physical seats, like we do from day to day in naval helicopters, that's just not a thing).
You can ask to fly a different airplane and/or ask for a different crew position. You might not get but you can always ask. (Maybe you want to be a big fish in a little pond close to home, maybe you want the glamor of four stripes and crossing the pond in a big airplane—even if it means you're only at the back of the line of backup pilots on phone recall and you rarely actually fly—or maybe you're a happy medium kind of guy and you pick your airplane/base/seat based on that.) Bidding takes like two seconds of point and click, there's no thirty page packet with your skipper's endorsement and there's no BUPERS transition board. When the bid window closes a computerized gonkulator spits out the results in a few hours. The available quotas ebb and flow; with the crazy airline growth/hiring/retirements in the last few years there has been a lot of flow... right up until last month. Remember how a rising tide lifts all boats? March and April were like a giant hole opened up in the bottom of the ocean.
The training center is a bit like the FRS/RAG in some ways and a lot in others. You do nearly all of your training and checkrides there and they certify everything. Sticking to the schedule is a really big deal. The administrative processes are pretty similar and there are a few different versions of the syllabus based on where a pilot is coming from and where they're going (just like the RAG).
Let's say the Navy decided to get rid of the H-53 once and for all (work with me on this analogy...) and also stand down a few H-60 squadrons at the same time. All of those 53 pilots will now get absorbed into the 60 community. There's a lot of variety in the 60 community but also remember that a lot of 60 pilots just got displaced too. Using the work rules, starting with seniority, figure out the details of how you're going to transition all of those pilots, which ones used to fly a 60 and which crew position they were last qualified in. The training pubs will specify the ground school component and the simulator component- both of which cost time and money.
Obviously a lot of people are going to be left out in the cold when the shuffle is over. You might be able to relieve a bit of pressure with things like early-out programs or leaves of absence. A bit but not much.
Don't forget that when the flying picks up again then you'll have to train a bunch of pilots or re-train your idled pilots. The training pubs will have the details on that too. It will cost a lot of money and resources. Nobody knows when the flying will pick back up; sooner will be less expensive than later.
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neverVikings
Preparation, Knowledge, Attitude
Good question. I am with a Legacy Airline (NOT UAL) so I can share with you how displacements work here. We are having a "displacement" bid or "reduction" bid. I am based in LAX on the A320 and they are reducing the number of airplanes (A320) and crews in that base. Once the bid comes out, pilots can bid into the 737 at our other bases. I am senior enough to hold my seat until the A320 is completely gone from LAX. I will eventually be
"displaced" and per our contract (CBA) there is language in there that stipulates how the reduction will be handled.
A furlough is when the Airline, in reverse seniority, (bottup up) begins a furlough or lay off. All contracts are different, however, ALPA carriers tend to have similar language.
Hope this helps.
So, I have to ask, is your screen name a football reference or are you against the once famous twin-engined ASW jet that may, or may not, be brought back from the grave?
neverVikings
Preparation, Knowledge, Attitude
Some other interesting facts regarding KCM, or where the flight crews enter the secure areas at the airport. From Feb to March, the number (nationwide) was cut by 1/4. From March to April... the number is 3/4 what it was a year prior. This is unprecedented.Here’s a nifty link that should give folks a glimpse into the health of the airlines.
TSA measured passenger traffic system wide now Vs this time in 2019.
neverVikings
Preparation, Knowledge, Attitude
it is an inside joke with my fellow pilots...I am in Dallas...so you can imagine what their call signs are! It just my way of spreading the "love".
Let me offer another view for InsaneBikerBoy:
Let's say UAL furloughs 2000 pilots on 1 Oct. The bulk of those junior pilots are in the right seat of the Airbus and 737.
So if they are furloughed and gone, how do you fly those trips? Answer: you can't until you train their replacements. Where would those replacements come from? They are the more senior pilots that are moving "down" as their higher-paying fleet-and-seat is reduced.
This "displacement bid" is an early way to drive those more senior pilots downhill, into the training center now... and have them ready to fly in their new fleet when 1 Oct happens.
Let's say UAL furloughs 2000 pilots on 1 Oct. The bulk of those junior pilots are in the right seat of the Airbus and 737.
So if they are furloughed and gone, how do you fly those trips? Answer: you can't until you train their replacements. Where would those replacements come from? They are the more senior pilots that are moving "down" as their higher-paying fleet-and-seat is reduced.
This "displacement bid" is an early way to drive those more senior pilots downhill, into the training center now... and have them ready to fly in their new fleet when 1 Oct happens.