There will ALWAYS be an England ... ???

[Hozer]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pped-Trident-delayed--Cameron-wields-axe.html

Royal Navy down to 19 ships? NO fixed-wing aircraft for 10 years and pending any more delays in the F-35 program...who knows?
In the later paragraphs it is revealed that even the two new carriers won't have fixed wing aircraft for their first few years of service and that the first ship will be put into mothballs as soon as the second comes online.

It follows that Ark Royal will be put up for sale, given the cost of scrap vs. selling outright.

As a side-note, Mayport NS has 22 vessels homeported there alone.

 

[A4sForever]

MERGED ... (sorry, Hozer ... didn't see your post or we were on a simo-run) but anyway:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, it looks like the 'new' British government may have done to the current HMS ARK ROYAL what the Spanish Armada, the Central Powers, the Axis Powers, the Rooskies and their fellow-travelers could not do to her nor her four other namesakes ... namely sink the ARK ROYAL.

BBC: Defense Review -- HMS ARK ROYAL to be scrapped

Belfast Telegraph: Former ARK ROYAL chief blasts 'incoherent strategy'

Double whammy: it looks like the Naval Harriers will be gone as a result: "One Harrier pilot, Royal Navy Lieutenant Commander Kris Ward asked the PM: "I have flown 140 odd missions in Afghanistan and I am now potentially facing unemployment. How am I supposed to feel about that sir?"

"Mr Cameron thanked him for "everything" he had done for his country ..." (that should provide him with relief)

PM Cameron did say, however, that spending will double on alleviating poverty in areas of conflict - such as Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia - to £4bn ($6.3bn) by 2015 ... to alleviate poverty. Alleviating poverty ...

And yet ... the continued construction of two NEW carriers will go ahead ... as it would cost more ££ to scrap those plans than to "complete" 'em ...

Madness ... utter madness ...

 

[gparks1989]

It sounds to me like Cameron/Clegg went in with the right idea, but came out with the wrong practice...Paring the fleet down and using only the most modern equipment (Eurofighters....impressive air craft) makes sense, especially in the era of "austerity", but it sounds like the British Navair will loose ten years of training, ten years of expertise and ten years of an expeditionary environment.

As a side note, do they have any LHD type platforms? Or are they just left with a fleet of small boys?

 

[SynixMan]

^^ They have the HMS Ocean, but that lacks fixed wing capability. So somewhere between an LPD and LHA.

This is pretty nuts. Hopefully our shipbuilding strategy doesn't suffer similar problems.

 

[Flash]

"One Harrier pilot, Royal Navy Lieutenant Commander Kris Ward asked the PM: "I have flown 140 odd missions in Afghanistan and I am now potentially facing unemployment. How am I supposed to feel about that sir?"

"Mr Cameron thanked him for "everything" he had done for his country ..." (that should provide him with relief)

CDR Nigel 'Sharkey' Ward's son, good on him for asking the question.

 

[scoolbubba]

Can't we go back to the days when instead of throwing money at problem nations, we (western civilization) just sent the biggest, baddest, meanest sons of bitches we could find in to punch the problem children in the nose, take what we wanted, and leave?

Things worked about as well then as they do now, and we got to keep our toys.

 

[nittany03]

If I read the article right, the grand plan is that at the end of this fiasco, they'll have a no-kidding tailhook carrier in HMS Queen Elizabeth. Yet they're gutting their aircrew 10yrs prior. Do they think that tailhookers just grow on trees? I bet we'll see a lot of Brits hanging around Kingsville/Meridian, Eglin AFB, and LSO skool up in Oceana in a decade or so. Meatball, lineup, AOA. Americans (re)teaching Brits what their fathers and grandfathers invented after WWII. Irony is the spice of life.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Some long faces today on our resident Brits here in harrier land. It must suck to learn that you won't have a plane to fly when you get home.

 

[eas7888]

This really is a sad event for the country that was once the greatest naval power in the world. It truly is a demoralizing move for members currently in the UK's armed forces. At a time when wide spread conflict is not the norm, and regional conflicts dot the globe. A carrier seems like a no-brainer. A sad day indeed.

 

[jmcquate]

If I read the article right, the grand plan is that at the end of this fiasco, they'll have a no-kidding tailhook carrier in HMS Queen Elizabeth. Yet they're gutting their aircrew 10yrs prior. Do they think that tailhookers just grow on trees? I bet we'll see a lot of Brits hanging around Kingsville/Meridian, Eglin AFB, and LSO skool up in Oceana in a decade or so. Meatball, lineup, AOA. Americans (re)teaching Brits what their fathers and grandfathers invented after WWII. Irony is the spice of life.

Brits haven't had tailhookers for quite a while. I believe the last ones were flying Phantoms and Buccaneers.

 

[Hozer]

If I read the article right, the grand plan is that at the end of this fiasco, they'll have a no-kidding tailhook carrier in HMS Queen Elizabeth. Yet they're gutting their aircrew 10yrs prior. Do they think that tailhookers just grow on trees? I bet we'll see a lot of Brits hanging around Kingsville/Meridian, Eglin AFB, and LSO skool up in Oceana in a decade or so. Meatball, lineup, AOA. Americans (re)teaching Brits what their fathers and grandfathers invented after WWII. Irony is the spice of life.

If recent history suggests anything, it's that once these programs disappear, they are awfully hard to re-start. British naval (and overall military) downsizing since WWII is sobering. I'm skeptical that a JSF buy of substance will happen from them. It's too easy to push down the road and the politicians are hoping the masses just forget...

 

[nittany03]

Brits haven't had tailhookers for quite a while. I believe the last ones were flying Phantoms and Buccaneers.

Yes, but wouldn't a qualled and current Harrier community have a much easier time making the transition than having to grow the capability from scratch? Granted, V/STOL ops != fixed wing ops, but still. IIRC, all the other TACAIR guys in Britain are RAF types in Tornados and Typhoons, right?

 

[eas7888]

Yes, but wouldn't a qualled and current Harrier bubba would have a much easier time making the transition than having to grow the capability from scratch. IIRC, all the other TACAIR guys in Britain are RAF types in Tornados and Typhoons, right?

That's what the article says, anyway. It's interesting that they don't keep the harriers flying, in a land based role for the very reason of keeping the qualified professionals in the ranks. A carrier is no good without its aircraft...however, an aircraft can function independently of it's carrier.

 

[nittany03]

Yes, but landing on Das Boot is a perishable skill. So is waving them aboard, being Air Boss, or for that matter, being flight deck crew. Officer or enlisted. The reason we can get away with doing what we do without killing more people than we do is because we've been doing this carrier aviation thing for 88 years continuously. Aircraft may function independently of Mom, but that doesn't mean the crew retain the necessary skill set to get aboard, or that their troops maintain the skill set to do their part. The Brits are going to have to rebuild that from scratch in a decade or so. Assuming that the JSF program doesn't turn into anymore of a political football than it already is.

 

[eas7888]

Yes, but landing on Das Boot is a perishable skill. So is waving them aboard, being Air Boss, or for that matter, being flight deck crew. Officer or enlisted. The reason we can get away with doing what we do without killing more people than we do is because we've been doing this carrier aviation thing for 88 years continuously. Aircraft may function independently of Mom, but that doesn't mean the crew retain the necessary skill set to get aboard, or that their troops maintain the skill set to do their part. The Brits are going to have to rebuild that from scratch in a decade or so. Assuming that the JSF program doesn't turn into anymore of a political football than it already is.

Good point about the bigger picture.