This here's my (flooded) county!

[Gatordev]

But the hard truth is FEMA needs to be doing this at a national scale for disaster response. They’ve been in existence since Jimmy Carter, they’ve had 19 years to get it right since Katrina, and their Helene response has been subpar.

I think you need citations for such a bold statement rather than just anecdotes. Is everyone getting rescued at once? Of course not...just like everything else, disaster recovery is resource limited. But the Guard was on-scene as soon as it was safe to move in. FEMA uses A LOT of contractors, and tons were already in SC the morning of the storm. Additionally, FEMA pays for everything for the contractors, including their (OT) salary, so the contractors are VERY motivated to be there and support.

If "we" want more FEMA support, then the contracts need to be redone asking for more resources, which of course, takes more money. But if they do, I guarantee the contractors will be more than happy to bring more resources to bear.

So the question becomes- how would a civilian pilot simply offering aid (before getting in the way) be received? How can pilots be educated on the best way to effectively use their airplanes to deliver supplies and/or souls in a humanitarian crisis?

GA always seems to find a way. That's not to say it couldn't be more transparent. From what I've seen in FL, there's a central command center in TLH (this is where you always see Ron doing his briefings). Part of that command has an aviation coordinator (or several). These are the guys that move around resources, act as the go-between for the government and the contractor, and also coordinate the TFR entries when needed. And much more, I'm sure.

Officially, I think you'd reach out to the state to start the conversation. If there isn't a TFR, then sometimes showing up and/or working with a FBO might be an option. The trick is finding a place with gas, which is usually where everyone congregates (FEMA, power-line, HEMS, etc).

 

[Flash]

But the hard truth is FEMA needs to be doing this at a national scale for disaster response. They’ve been in existence since Jimmy Carter, they’ve had 19 years to get it right since Katrina, and their Helene response has been subpar.

I think that there is a popular misconception that FEMA is in 'command' of disaster response when it is more of a coordinator and enabler than anything else. Local and state agencies take the lead in disaster response and as history has shown, the responses can vary greatly. Some places like Florida have become pretty well practiced at it but others have not, and as Helene has shown it can vary by region as North Carolina is pretty well prepared for hurricane on the east coat but not in the mountains near its western border.

So while the news is filled with dramatic stories of how bad things are, it is largely a result of it being a recently unique disaster in challenging terrain in an area unused to the size and scale of Helene. Individual stories like the one originally posted certainly go viral but the boring everyday disaster response work like clearing roads, restoring power and water usually do not.

There are myriad reasons FEMA isn't in 'command' of disaster response in the sense we think of military-wise, with the primary one being that it is part of the 'federal' response where the local and state governments take the lead. This puts an onus on those governments to be able to do their functions, which unfortunately sometimes they cannot due to the scale of a disaster as exemplified by Katrina and now Helene. There are significant legal, political, practical and logistic obstacles to assigning more 'command authorities' to FEMA. It makes a lot of sense to keep local and state authorities in charge of disaster response, they know their own areas better than anyone, though there could probably be more work done to allow for a more robust federal response when local and state authorities are no longer capable. Buuuuut....where is the line?

And there is where it gets really sticky politically. States are often kind of sensitive when it comes to the feds coming in and telling them what to do, often for good reason. Then there are the conspiracy theories, with FEMA serving as a bugaboo for years as a major player in many conspiracy theories of government control or take over. This has unfortunately has been enabled by some politicians who know far better but want to pander to voters who believe the UN is going to take over, HAARP is being used to control the weather space-based weaponry is used to cause natural disasters.

 

[taxi1]

But the hard truth is FEMA needs to be doing this at a national scale for disaster response. They’ve been in existence since Jimmy Carter, they’ve had 19 years to get it right since Katrina, and their Helene response has been subpar.

FEMA is always there to support the local government. Local to the cities and counties, and then to the state. They bring the $$$ and other assets, but are not in charge of the response. The local government is.

FEMA's mission isn't just response. It also helps all these local government prepare. Were they prepared in North Carolina for this flood, which has happened before (1916)?

@Flash post says it better...

 

[Swanee]

FEMA is always there to support the local government. Local to the cities and counties, and then to the state. They bring the $$$ and other assets, but are not in charge of the response. The local government is.

FEMA's mission isn't just response. It also helps all these local government prepare. Were they prepared in North Carolina for this flood, which has happened before (1916)?

@Flash post says it better...

This.

My brother just left this morning with his swift water and technical rescue task force team from VA to support FL with hurricane Milton. They're staging somewhere south of Atlanta, and pushing south from there as the need arises. They've been federalized and are "part" of FEMA. What that really means is that their paychecks, their travel bills, their costs, gear replacement (if needed) etc... is funded at least in part by the federal government, so the dollar burden doesn't get passed to the local counties, cities, or the state of Virginia, for helping out a fellow state when they're in need. For this operational "deployment" the Governors of Virginia and other states are passing Operational Command to the Governor of Florida, who in turn passes Tactical Command to whichever state agency is running the game.

The home state of each unit covers the costs of initial manning, equipping, and training, though commonly with federal grant money.

Once my brother's team shows up on station they fall in as an attached unit to whichever local or state organization is running the show. In Virginia, they'd be part of the HQ element that commands the teams from outside of the state.

For us military types- think about how you'd attach a reserve weapons platoon to another rifle company, or an engineer company to another battalion.

 

[Brett327]

Chuck is the expert, but probably need to leverage the CAP, some local sheriff/PD/FD volunteer auxiliary, nonprofit SAR, or other existing organizational structure. Make it less about wearing a uniform and more about safety rules and SOPs. This can be done at the state and local levels. Lots of mountain towns out west have a pretty robust volunteer SAR group with helo assets on call. These are nonprofit orgs that technically aren’t FD/LE assets yet are authorized to operate in SAR scenarios. It’s a model worth looking into.

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But the hard truth is FEMA needs to be doing this at a national scale for disaster response. They’ve been in existence since Jimmy Carter, they’ve had 19 years to get it right since Katrina, and their Helene response has been subpar.

Doing what on a national scale? Next question, is the agency resourced to do what you’re asking of it? The answer is no. Everyone wants government agencies to do amazing things in an emergency, but those people aren’t there advocating for the budget to reflect those aspirations.

 

[MIDNJAC]

As they always say, if you levy a tax, they’ll come

Right???

Oh wait no, we just want the services part

 

[RobLyman]

Most of you know I flew for the Florida Army National Guard for about 16 years. I have participated at different levels and at different stages in numerous hurricane relief operations. FWIW, the Florida Guard had aviation assets up there for Helene up until Milton took aim. I may be bias, but I would say Florida has hurricane relief operations down better than other states. I believe this is a factor in the quality of response to Helene north of the Florida/Georgia border. But there are other factors which may actually have affected the response and perception of response more.

Infrastructure: Florida's highway system tends to stay intact during hurricanes. This is probably mostly due to terrain and lesser due to construction method. Getting people on the ground in isolated areas to help coordinate is beneficial.

Communications: A MAJOR factor in relief efforts, was clearly hindered by terrain and infrastructure. Without communications, efforts are more complicated, and the stories communicated out of the area are low level and do not necessarily reflect what is really going on.

TFRs and Coordination: Sometimes TFRs are established early, whether for a forest fire or a hurricane. Sometimes its an afterthought. Florida does this as part of the planning as a hurricane approaches. Other states may not know to do this. Let's face it, the area Helene hit is not known to have hurricanes, so their "checklist" is probably less complete or organized. FEMA does little to actually coordinate aviation operations. They tend to defer to other entities. The Army National Guard has a representative, usually an O-5, at the national level who acts as a liaison to FEMA. That is his primary job! For a while, that person was a Florida Guard member. About the time I retired (1.5 years ago) that person came back to Florida. I don't know who is doing it now. It's possible the change in the person filling that position also was a factor in the response.

Planning: Crews are formed and assets are gathered as the hurricane approaches. Radios, search sectors, altitudes, etc...are all part of the preplanning package for Florida's relief effort. Other states????

Civilians: It is imperative for civilian aircraft participating in efforts to be part of the coordination. The airspace can get quite crowded for hurricane relief. You CAN NOT have sight-seeing going on. So how do you know if a civilian flight is legit? They have to coordinate with someone or they get told to go home. An R22 or other small civilian helicopter can get into a few spots that a Black Hawk or Chinook can't. Good on them. But remember the guard also has Lakotas (EC145s). It's gets harder to argue that a civilian aircraft brings anything unique to the effort. In fact, there are probably few missions a civilian helicopter can do that a military helicopter can't. Having said that, I don't disagree that sometimes just having more help isn't a bad idea.

The fire chief guy? Well official government representatives don't always stay in their own lane, especially if there is fame on the line.

 

[wink]

Volunteer aviation organizations are clearly having an impact here and should be a part of any organized response but the key word is “organized.”

The headquarters chapter of the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation, based at KHMP, Hampton GA. deployed two UH1H and crew into the Blue Ridge Mountains for relief missions. They have made many sorties carrying, water, generators, chainsaws, 250 Human Remains pouches, and associated recovery and relief supplies. flying out civilian personnel is not on the ATO, as it would violate our FAA certification. Still, the impact that these supply runs they have been making is tremendous. They were not relieved until an army Chinook showed up. All crews and both aircraft have returned to KHMP to prepare for a deployment to Florida after Milton sweeps through.

As you may know the AAHF is all volunteer, Every last man hour. We can only afford to fly turbine helicopters based on the meager return from flying passengers for a fee under the FAA Living History Flight Exemption. The real support comes from donations. Volunteer man hours does not buy fuel to fly in critical material and members to move generators, pallets of water, etc. If you can help us, the AAHF will continue to fly these classic combat aircraft on 21st century relief missions, eerily similar to those they flew over 50 years ago.

Can you imagine in, 2024, you are of a certain age, standing in an devastated landscape that some describe as "like a war zone," and you hear the familiar whop whop of a Huey. You snap back 60 years, look up and see a flight of two UH-1s flying through forested mountains to you with critical supplies, and friendly faces. IS THAT A PICTURE OR WHAT?

Relax kid, that's not 'the DELTA", that is North Carolina.