This morning's A-pool idiocy...PT Policy and O vs PO open debate

[phrogpilot73]

Now I'm not entirely familiar with aircrew candidates, but I'm assuming they are in the aircraft with the pilots/nfos. That alone means they should be on equal footing regarding physical prowess. The pilots/nfos being officers, and therefore the example, means that they should be that much stronger physically.

Not necessarily. An aircrew candidate could be bound for rescue swimmer school. My job is to sit in a seat and hold a steady hover for him. His job is incredibly physically demanding. Mine is not.

 

[BACONATOR]

While I understand your point, I don't think its entirely applicable. I would expect an officer SEAL candidate to be in better physical condition than the enlisted SEAL candidate, and they have to be IOT be selected from my understanding.

Now I'm not entirely familiar with aircrew candidates, but I'm assuming they are in the aircraft with the pilots/nfos. That alone means they should be on equal footing regarding physical prowess. The pilots/nfos being officers, and therefore the example, means that they should be that much stronger physically.

My $.02.

Um... let me break this down barney style:


PT Standards
SEAL Officer > SEAL Enlistedman =/= Aviation Officer > Aircrew/RSS Enlisteman

I understand that yut and devildog, but seriously.... Oohrah!

The Navy has physical standards. I agree that they should be met and exceeded, certainly beyond the bare minimum. But it just IS NOT REQUIRED that every officer be a PT stud. Aviators are NOT REQUIRED in their designators to perform great feats of physical endurance or strength (in the normal realm of their jobs). Rescue swimmers and aircrewmen are. Plain and simple, the standards/levels of fitness aren't the same.

 

[loadtoad]

There have been three times that I have seen Enlisted personnel act unprofessional toward an Officer while at NAS Pensacola. Two of those times I corrected the individuals and the other it was not my place so I did not. One was an E-5 instructor and the other two were both MA's (E-4/E-6) but on separate occupations.

I think there is something about that base and the million of O-1's running around that gives some of the Enlisted Staff a sense of entitlement. Not once did I act like that towards an Officer nor did I witness any of my friends act that way.

What Jersey did was spot on and the E-5 who stormed out was out of line.

 

[Godspeed]

Aviators are NOT REQUIRED in their designators to perform great feats of physical endurance or strength

I didn't think that until I went to CFET. That was probably the hardest i'd worked in any 10 minute period of my entire life (to include OCS).

 

[Schnugg]

With all due respect....I just don't get it. Yes, I realize that not every ensign in A-Pool is a bag of ass, but there are certainly way more than there should be. Who do these kids think they are? They're commissioned officers and they're acting like some asshole high school jock who thinks his/her shit doesn't stink. Yes, maybe there are some gripes about A-Pool, but to snap off on some PO2 like an arrogant prick, not letting him finish his sentences? Was the kid trying to "look cool" in front of everyone? It's the other ensigns who need to shut that ass clown and others like him down, not some LT from STUCON who's probably just biding their time waiting to get out. We're going to be stuck with those idiots, not them, so it should be our problem to deal with. Anyway, the real problem, like I said before, is the comm sources. Yes, people will bitch about this, but they're producing crappy officers. Too many are getting by, thanks to the soft standards most academies and ROTC units hold, and yes, I hold my own school accountable too. I'm not saying we need to get back to the old school skull cracking days of years past, but something on that base level needs to change. I think they should pull out these disrespectful, un-officerlike, D-bags, find out who produced them, then make a call to their school to let them know, hey, you suck, fix your program. My .02, I'll get off my high horse now.

With all due respect...believe me, I'm not trying to enrage anyone by my opinions, nor am I trying to sounds like a pompous asshole either. but truly, do you need any "qualifications" to pass judgement on your peers? it's simply policing your own. if I was commenting on commanding officers, or even LT's, yes, I could and would expect outrage. but I guess it's more personal frustration than anything, and that's why I initially asked if this growing trend of disrespect/entitlement (not among everyone) was unique to this generation or if it was evident in years past as well. Yes, I realize all you winged guys are looking down at me like I'm some knowitall arrogant schmuck who has no experience to be making my claims, but in reality, it's you all who lack the experience to be commenting on the current state of the JO's. hear me out before you rip me a new asshole, and hopefully this will somewhat clarify my underlying point. even if you were commissioned 5 years ago, things have changed dramatically. Even from when I was a plebe to my 1st class year, the quality of midshipmen, across the board has declined. IT, PT, disciplining, traditions, respect, everything has been curtailed because of all sorts of political pullings. I'm not saying that this affects everyone, but it allows tons of people to slip through the cracks that normally would have been washed out or rolled for one reason or another. The academies mainly, are so focused on not attriting people that they end up keeping people who have no business being officers. Yes, I realize that that's the minority and most people commissioned are great upstanding people who are great officers, but it only takes one asshole to make the whole crowd look shitty, hence the situation in A-Pool today. it's frustrating being held in the same respect as the loud mouthed assclowns who shouldn't be in the shoes they're standing in. that's why I brought up the idea of looking at the comm sources and putting ownership on them. the problem needs to be fixed at the source

Fixed that for you...you salty dog you.

 

[picklesuit]

As one of the Prior-E types here I can attest to the fact that the AM2 will probably get hammered by his own shop...regardless of whether what he said was right or wrong. I have stepped on my dick before by running my mouth...you get the ass-chewing all the way up.

Case-in-point...certain evolutions required the Nav to be off the radio for me to do my job as a Toob-Slug. During a sim I had asked (several times) for the Nav to go off comms...having heard no answer I demanded, a little forcefully, that he get off the radio...I thought nothing of it at the time, and heard nothing from the Nav/MC that day. The next day I saw my sea daddy, my LPO, my LCPO, and finally the Nav in question (to whom I apologized profusely) for a lesson in tact/professionalism.

Did I need him off the radio? Yes. Was he wrong for not getting off comms? Yes. Was I even more wrong for acting like a douche-nozzle and yelling at a JG while an AW3? Absolutely.

Lesson learned.

I believe Jersey acted appropriately and hopefully other JO's can learn from her actions...

 

[Mumbles]

^You damn SS3s and your "radio silence" for MADMAN runs.....geeesh!
That being said....don't ever pass on an oppurtunity to abuse the NAV!

 

[Aircrew Instruc]

As a former Aircrew instructor Aircrew Candidates PTing with API that is a bad idea. My biggest problem with A-pool as an instructor was trying to explain to my students why ENS so and so looked like a big bag of ass while they were being held to Navy standards. We are Officers we are supposed to lead by example!!! As an AW1 I corrected my fair share of Ensigns for not leading by example but I did it respectfully and thats the key. They were both wrong in my opinion remeber praise in public and reprimand in private.

 

[H60Gunner]

^You damn SS3s and your "radio silence" for MADMAN runs.....geeesh!
That being said....don't ever pass on an oppurtunity to abuse the NAV!

That and those fucking MADCOMPS. Make you wanna blow chow in SS3's box lunch!

Seriously though, the PO2 was afu. Might be a great instructor but had a situation thrown at him and dealt with it inappropriately. I'm sure it has been handled by now and to me is not that big of a deal. Lessons learned all around.

 

[Birdog8585]

Jersey, nice work.

To all of the other Ensigns who wont stop whining about this PT gig, STFU and just deal with it. If you think it's a bad command decision, fine, discuss it amongst the rest of the JOPA and make something happen - in a tactful way.


And by the way...

Granted, I'm a Marine and not a naval officer

This just in . . . there is an anchor in our insignia too. Whether you like it or not, you are.

 

[Recovering LSO]

One thought for this entire thread: YGBFSM! Where the fuck are these Ensigns getting commissioned and who's training them? Does any of the NASC leadership know about the train wreck they have on their hands?

 

[DocT]

And by the way...


This just in . . . there is an anchor in our insignia too. Whether you like it or not, you are.

Yeah yeah...Naval Service. You know what he meant.

 

[picklesuit]

So (for those of us that like to watch train-wrecks) any fall-out from yesterday or is it business as usual?

 

[Bevo16]

So (for those of us that like to watch train-wrecks) any fall-out from yesterday or is it business as usual?

I got some negative rep for my take on the aggy corps. That was fun. Truth can be a MF sometimes.

 

[statesman]

Not really.

The only thing that happened was an explanation from on-high as to why we PT, and basically a "quit you bitching we ask 1.5 hours a PT 3 days a week and youre getting paid."

Very relaxed, and nothing regarding the AM2 debacle.